Hey guys I just wanted to know from the spec-ops fan club why is it that the Spec-ops is so good? I personally find it a bit of a useless kit in PR because it does nothing unique (ie. heal, ammo, eng is better at destroying things, etc.).

 

Or is it more of an M4 fan club as I have heard that many people can't use/can't stand to use the 3 rnd burst on the M16?

 

Personally I think if the Spec-ops had a silenced weapon that did a bit less damage than a rifle eg. MP5SD, and some C4 so he could actually harm tanks as SLAMs are like firecrackers (all bark and no bite), he would have a much more defined role in the game and be useful again and people would stop using him as a front line infantryman which he is not supposed to be.

 

Thoughts?

It's the M4 mainly, can't stand using the M16 (although I had a great day with it as a a grenadier earlier). The SLAMS are ok to take out the gate on Al Fallujah and Rallies. The other main point I use it is the SOFLAM. I just use them as binocs because I don't know how to work them.

The other main point I use it is the SOFLAM. I just use them as binocs because I don't know how to work them.

 

That's because they are just binos at the moment. In the future they'll be used as laser painters for guided missile strikes. Although I have a funny feeling that the last time I played the 0.6 BETA the spec ops didn't have a SOFLAM. Maybe wrong though.

 

In my opinion they should be a limited kit but with a more destructive device than the SLAM.

The other main point I use it is the SOFLAM. I just use them as binocs because I don't know how to work them.

 

That's because they are just binos at the moment. In the future they'll be used as laser painters for guided missile strikes. device than the SLAM.

 

Thanks, they are awfull handy binocs though

Thoughts?

 

As Lucid will say, its the association with the elite of the elite that attracts gamers. The same goes for snipers, ever notice how 90% of the sniper and marksmen kit requests are from newbies? It because the training to become a sniper is so rigourous that its a "glory kit" which has little to no impact on the field but attracts newbies like the proverbial attracts flies

 

I can see where he's coming from but the other side of the coin is, it suits a lot of vanilla players who are used to low recoil. The M4 has low recoil and is extremely accurate and its a lot like the weapons in vnilla so thats why they find it an easy transistion. Put them straight on an M16 and they cant hit the broad side of a barn. Then, the vanilla players are so used to the M4 and are intimatly familular with it that they are reluctant to change to a more powerful or team-based wepon kit (all except 5 of those are equipped with the M16)

The class is quite self-sustaining when conducting behind enemy lines operations (which is what you should really be doing if you play the class - no body armour means no front-line combat).

 

It's not just the M4 - the HK53 and QBZ97 are deadly little weapons that are more than sufficient for covert and discreet elimination of hostiles. The reason people keep dieing as Spec Ops is because they're using the M4 on full auto. Nothing is more distinct than the rapid-fire sound of an M4 being emptied, and this makes you a priority target.

 

I love the kit because, for about a year and a half straight, it was my bread-and-butter class in vBF2. The mechanics of Special Forces play are multiplied ten-fold in PR as your actions can be ever more helpful to your team, and ever-more disastrous to your opponent.

 

SLAMs are still my preferred method of destroying rally points. Whilst the initial approach to place the charge on the point can be risky, once it's up you are not completely defenceless and are able to cover the point as the charge timer ticks down. The only other methods would be grenades (leaving you open to weapon-switch delay) or small-arms fire (leaving you open to reload-delay). The explosion radius of a SLAM will also go through placeables, so those who place rally points inside glitched buildings will not find their point indestructible.

Spec-Ops is also one of the only classes, apart from Officer I think, to have a sidearm. It can save your life.

 

Also, you get to wear a beret.

 

Also, you get to wear a beret.

Score!

and some C4 so he could actually harm tanks

Spec ops aren't properly equipped to attempt to destroy tanks close range in the middle of a battle. That's an engineers job, both in real life and PR.

My disdain for the m4 is a roll over from the previous version of the mod when its had virtually no recoil and was well know as the 'moon raker laser' by those who weren't a fan. I however still feel that it attracts a less mature less team orientated and generally less helpful type of player that I generally dislike including in my squads.

 

Also personally I dislike the sight on the m4 however I do very much like the QBZ97 even though I don't often use it.

Spec ops aren't properly equipped to attempt to destroy tanks close range in the middle of a battle in real life. That's an engineers job, both in real life and PR.

I was more thinking of sabotage I don't think anyone would want to run at a tank while it was in battle in real life maybe in WWII but not in this day and age.

 

SLAMs are still my preferred method of destroying rally points.

Mine too especially if you have to do a suicide run (run in chuck SLAM get killed by many spawners) like taking out the Brit static rally in airport etc.

 

it suits a lot of vanilla players

Yes I know that one, its like wearing the I'm new here flag all the guys who take spec-ops and sniper kits from the get go. However I was more thinking why the vets use it so much too. Except for photo because I know that he actually uses it as it is supposed to be used. Every now and then photo is like "wolf I'm gonna go take out this rally or this asset etc" and I'm like "sure" mainly coz he never ever fails lol.

 

In my opinion they should be a limited kit but with a more destructive device than the SLAM.

Now that is the best idea I have ever heard, actually I'm pissed that I didn't think of it myself. This would solve all the problems with the spec-ops kit as it currently stands. Considering that special forces are suposed to be special and therefore should be limited. Plus I think they should still get a silenced primary weapon if it is limited though you could just leave it as an M4. Man someone should pitch this to the PR devs or do I have to make an account over there just to post this. It would be worth it methinks.

I was more thinking of sabotage I don't think anyone would want to run at a tank while it was in battle in real life maybe in WWII but not in this day and age.

Well, if the situation allowed the infantry to get close enough, they'd certainly give it a shot. Urban warfare, forest combat, etc are excellent places where infantry can get close to tanks.

Only problem is there hasn't been any real warfare between two well equipped factions on a large scale for quite some time, so it is unlikely to happen.

 

Also, slams will do all of nothing to a MBT in reality. They might, if they're lucky, track it. Other than that, the tank is still fully operational.

The only two time I ever consider playing spec ops is

a) US Al Basrah - since there are a lot of rally points (ie. Spawn cars) that require a bit more then the standard 2 magazines to destroy, and an engineer only gets 1 x C4.

b) US - any time I need a 'pseudo sniper' - and this normally doesn't work very well.

 

Apart from that, they just irritate me when I use them - no body armour, no grenades, a weak-ass gun and over played by everyone. I find especially when playing against Chinese (eg. Mao Valley) a lot of people go US Spec Op to counter the Chinese Rifleman 'scope'.

 

Like you suggeted, I think a lot of (new?) people use the US Spec Op for the M4 scope cos they can't aim with iron sights. I know I did in my first week of PR.

In my opinion they should be a limited kit but with a more destructive device than the SLAM.

 

Hell no. Limited kit?, yes, More powerful SLAM? no. They're small charges in reality, designed to sabotage not destroy things. To this extent, they work really well and 2 will destroy an asset but have little no no effect on anything bigger than a jeep. Keep as they are in my opinion

I think that the US side should have the M4 as it's standard kit to reflect what the RL US military is using in Iraq and Afaganistan. Ive seen this in Boot Camp Docos but forgive me if I'm wrong.

 

As it stands the M16's burst causes problems for new and regular players alike. This is most evident when the enemy is moving sideways. The auto spray pattern is more forgiving for those of us who dont have a beast of a PC.

 

Based on the the win/loss stats for the US it seems apparent that they are the least well equiped military in the game, map disadvantages aside. To me that doesn't gell with reality.

Meh,

 

I love Aimpoint sights and fit them to all my RL guns so play the M4 by choice since that suits me. My two greatest buzzes in PR come from:

 

1) blowing up enemy rally points - SLAM's are perfect for this; and

2) CQB (Close Quarter Battle).

 

The M4 beats just about anything in CQB except the shottie which is why you will normally find me playing one or the other!

I think that the US side should have the M4 as it's standard kit to reflect what the RL US military is using in Iraq and Afaganistan. Ive seen this in Boot Camp Docos but forgive me if I'm wrong.

 

I'm not entirely sure but i thought the US sent some of thier special forces to Afgahnistan. On that same note, i've seen tons of footage from Iraq where the grunts ae carrying the M16. It is still the standard issue weapon in the US forces except for special forces (SEAL, Delta Ops ect.)

 

After playing the beta for a short time, the US side seems more balanced. With increased view distance, the M16 really comes into its own. Sure, the MEC get a scoped G3 but the M16 is still more accurate in my opinion

Spec op fails in .5 IMO. Except for the M4, but that is only good for CQC and midrange, engagements, anyone worth their salt will out shoot you with a rifleman kit at long range.

 

I would much rather have an engineer in my squad than a spec ops, as the slams are pathetic.

 

FTR, if i know I'm going to spawn with hostiles near my rally point, I will use Spec ops if USMC.

Marines use some version of the m-16, the army uses the m4.

Current force in PR is the marines. They will be adding the army in at a later date.

Marines use some version of the m-16, the army uses the m4.

 

They do? I stand corrected

Yes that is true, however contrary to popular opinion the army issue M4 does not have full auto either, it has the same trigger group as the standard M16 (safe, single, 3 rnd burst) The army issue is just called the M4 carbine where as the spec-ops one is the M4A1 (or higher) carbine. This is simply because the US army doesn't trust its standard infantry to use full auto responsibly a problem that stems from the poorly trained soldiers sent to Vietnam. Not to mention in real life the military frowns on the use of full auto in most circumstances as it reduces accuracy very very rapidly.

Man someone should pitch this to the PR devs or do I have to make an account over there just to post this. It would be worth it methinks.

 

 

 

http://www.realitymod.com/forum/t18885-what-would-you-like-to-see-be-done-with-the-special-forces-kit.html

 

What's leading in the polls? Turn it into a close combat kit?!

For the love of.....

Yes that is true' date=' however contrary to popular opinion the army issue M4 does not have full auto either, it has the same trigger group as the standard M16 (safe, single, 3 rnd burst) The army issue is just called the M4 carbine where as the spec-ops one is the M4A1 (or higher) carbine. This is simply because the US army doesn't trust its standard infantry to use full auto responsibly a problem that stems from the poorly trained soldiers sent to Vietnam. Not to mention in real life the military frowns on the use of full auto in most circumstances as it reduces accuracy very very rapidly.[/quote']

 

It was like that before Viet Nam and has nothing to do with training. That was a straight bean counter decision and at the time the US where issued with 10 round magazines.

1962. US DoD Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA) purchases 1000 AR-15 rifles from Colt and sends those rifles to the South Vietnam, for field trials. Same year brings glowing reports about the effectiveness of the new "black rifle"

 

1964. US Air Forces officially adopted new rifle as M16.

1967. US Army adopted the rifle as a standard "US Rifle, 5.56mm, M16A1"

 

1981. Colt developed a variation of the M16A1, adapted for the SS109/5.56mm NATO cartridge, and submitted it to the military trials as the M16A1E1. This rifle differed from the M16A1 by having the heavier barrel with faster 1:7 rifling, a different type rear sights (adjustable for both range and windage), round handguards instead of triangular ones, and by replacing the full-auto fire mode with the burst (limited to 3 rounds per trigger pull), to preserve the ammunition.

 

1982. M16A1E1 is type-classified by US DoD as the "US Rifle, 5.56mm, M16A2".

Circa 1970 new 30 round magazines were introduced into service instead of the original 20 round ones, to equal Soviet and Chinese AK-47 assault rifles

 

I rest my case.

Can you post your sources? I'm fairly sure that they where issued with 10 round magazines for awhile.

 

I could be wrong of course.

 

Either way I'm not off on all of it, and of course the switch to three round burst brought along a whole new list of jamming problems.

I have NEVER heard of the M16 being issued a 10 round clip. The original was 20, although troops often took the top one or two out to reduce the frequency of jamming, maybe this is what you heard? Even SMG's and pistols of the time had more ammo than 10 rounds in the clip.

This is the site I got those quotes from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as18-e.htm However I have read similar from many other sources internet, books, documentaries, etc.

 

And you can get 10 rnd mags for the civilian versions but they were not ever issued to military personnel. And yes Chickenhawk I have also have heard many accounts that when the magazines are new the spring is too strong and can cause jamming as it has a tendency to double feed until it is a little worn. That is fixed with the new ones too though.

 

One gun that had less than 10 rounds was the 1911 (at 7 rnds) man that was a reliable yet horribly inaccurate and overused gun, I think it was first used in WWI and they were still using it in Vietnam. M9 berreta all the way. Though I am so rallying for the ADF to get these http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg18-e.htm Expensive as anything but 20 rounds per mag and the ability to penetrate CRISAT (kevlar + titanium) at 100 meters. :shock: :shock: