There is a very interesting interview with Michael Atkinson who as you most likely know is the South Australian Attorney General on GameSpot AU. I have to say its changed my view a little on the topic know that I actually have a voice and face to put to the debate. He also address a very important factor and that is how rude the vast majority of gamers are especially in relation to this issue. I can't see how getting angry, sending death threats and insulting these people can help.

 

Anyway go have a watch and discuss.

Whats wrong with R-18+ games in Australia if your over 18?? Do you WANT to be playing with young children? I think violent games should really be exclusive to people mature enough to handle them in a manner where they don't change their view on society and crimes/killing just because they can do it in GTA...

 

Sorry, but I feel sick to see the amount of immaturity in all those comments blasting off about the ratings. Its a pretty common thing to hear kids saying "Oh but I'll never do that in real life." Atkinson has a point BUT - whether or not a lot of people realize it but adolescence is when the human mind develops creative thinking, something that can pretty easily be warped by over exposure to extreme violence.

 

Young people + too much internet + gullibility = a very, VERY troubled person.

 

Guess what: The majority of our generation/niche (gamer generation) are rude, closed minded and incredibly immature, disrespectful and self-proclaimed immortal - I can only draw that to gaming and internet culture.

Edited April 26, 200915 yr by YAK

There is a very interesting interview with Michael Atkinson who as you most likely know is the South Australian Attorney General on GameSpot AU. I have to say its changed my view a little on the topic know that I actually have a voice and face to put to the debate. He also address a very important factor and that is how rude the vast majority of gamers are especially in relation to this issue. I can't see how getting angry, sending death threats and insulting these people can help.

 

Anyway go have a watch and discuss.

 

Its very poor form on part of those who wish to influence decisions by talking trash to the SA AG.At the same time, im not sure what you would expect by going on to the internet and deal with the public in an essentially anonymous forum debate about the issue. I'm not sure what he was expecting.

 

The study that he uses (Craig Anderson), i think is pretty good. There is plenty of stuff out there, and it generally shifts in the positive concerning that YES violence in games does effect people in some ways.

 

but there are more things that just violence in the games that are worth exploring. ie; militarisation of videogames, the role of 'other' actors in video games, the morality of decisions made by players in video games etc...

 

gta is alot different to even the most bloody of tactical gamers. But there is SO much weight being placed upon the shoulder of such video games. Its seems the consensus is that people feel that such violent video games do somehow breed killers (or may breed killers) but just take a look at americas army. that seems ok for people to accept that state sanctioned breeding of killers and funded tactical gamers are ok, but morally ambiguous street violence gta isn't. So one game is actually deliberately breeding the mentality required for soldiering, whilst the other pretends to live out a gangster fantasy.

 

Im not sure, that at least on a social level, this kind of stuff is being truly engaged with in parallel with the discussion about violence in video games.

 

I semi-agree with the AGs premise. But r18 will happen in australia without a doubt imo...

hmmmmmmmmmm interesting

 

He talks about the population to decide not the gamers, Every year the size of gamers vs non gamers increases in our favor.. One day my comrades.. One day!

The whole situation here with no R-18+ rating is just so stupid....and its seems the stupidity is all set to continue.

 

The violence in media debate is decades old and the best working solution is a total classification system not censorship.

As someone who's been taking an interest in this stuff, I did find that interview to be quite enlightening about the AG. Despite some of his odd posts and people's claims of him being 'out of touch' an 'old fuddy duddy' 'christian conservative' etc etc, he is, as I suspected, quite 'with it', really.

 

He is right about one of the biggest hurdles we face as gamers - to unite the largely anonymous gaming community and rally against the unacceptible conduct of many internet residents towards him. The mass of immature abusive mouth-frothing posters only works to directly undo any headway the 'good guys' are making on this issue. That those posters think that anonymous abuse makes a positive contribution to this issue is pretty sad.

*sigh* just gimmie my game dammit.

For gta; Stealing cash back from pro's

Not that its a major thing anyway, its only ever tried caz you can do it, theres no good that comes out of it, you never get further in the game nor profit from it..

Which is why people shouldn't whine about not being able to do it.

 

I doubt gamers will win this one. That guy seemes pretty clued up and knows that outside of the internet most people who argue for a R18+ rating would fail miserably in a decent argument.

Edited April 27, 200915 yr by Rikidozan

what's to argue.

 

i'm 18 plus. i'm an adult. i can choose what i watch and what i want to play. children cannot buy these r18 rated items. sometimes, when i'm feeling naughty, i watch pornographic movies that children are also not allowed to watch. i also drink alcohol on occasions.

 

the end.

I vote for Tetris with stylised 2D pixelated genitalia.

 

Oops...

i'm 18 plus. i'm an adult. i can choose what i watch and what i want to play. children cannot buy these r18 rated items. sometimes, when i'm feeling naughty, i watch pornographic movies that children are also not allowed to watch. i also drink alcohol on occasions.

 

Children in their early teens, nowadays more than ever, can access all of these things very easily. And the accessing of them is already a major social issue.

 

Bringing in a system for games that has fail written all over it for so little gain is hardly worth it.

 

Maybe when the games industry matures a little and we get more games that can truly be classed as mature entertainment and not just overblown childhood fantasies with a sophisticated presentation we can have a look at an adult rating system.

 

What's to argue?

 

"Hey, I want an R18 rating because it allows the game industry to explore deeper social issues and themes that promote social awareness about said themes while advancing gaming as an artform."

is an argument.

 

"Hey, I reckon I should be able to play whatever I want because they already let me get drunk when I want and wank when I want."

is not going to get anyone anywhere.

"Hey, I reckon I should be able to play whatever I want because they already let me get drunk when I want and wank when I want."

 

Really, they let you do it whenever you want now? :shok:

 

Boy have i been missing out :thumbsupsmileyanim:

"Hey, I want an R18 rating because it allows the game industry to explore deeper social issues and themes that promote social awareness about said themes while advancing gaming as an artform."

 

Me likes this statement as a whole.... my thoughts, only the more severe cases are ever recognised in favour of objection....... Why is there no dominent presence in the promotion of what it can achieve, and be totaly wicked awsome fun.... :ike: :gathering:

What's to argue?

 

"Hey, I want an R18 rating because it allows the game industry to explore deeper social issues and themes that promote social awareness about said themes while advancing gaming as an artform."

is an argument.

Nope, my argument is still better. I like drinking and watching the shinning stars more than I care about art and social awareness.

Edited April 27, 200915 yr by HairyFence

Which is exactly why an R18+ rating doesn't exist. Because the biggest reason people want it is:

 

"Someone told me I can't have something so I'll cry like a little baby till I get it even though it benefits next to no one and adds next to nothing to my gaming experience. Please treat me like an adult even though I choose not to act like one and call me a waambulance while you're at it I think I have a boo boo."

 

Yeah, good luck with that one.

Yes but with no R18 + Rating, many games (only a few get banned) that are incredibly violent are still available to young kids that can get it quite easily. The average parent looks at that MA-15+ Rating and says "Well, a 15 year old is essentially a kid still, so it must be suitable", and then they buy it. You wouldn't allow a 12 year old to drink alcohol. Why? Because it can seriously harm them and even effect their growth, as well as the possibility of causing health problems. So, an R-18 + game should be no different, because in reality (this is something nobody realizes) the fact is these games that are passing censorship but still retain loads of violence are INCREDIBLY dangerous to a young persons developing mind. A kid can be tricked into believing anything, crime and gruesome violence is one of those things that if they are exposed to it enough that young there is a strong chance it will effect their decision making later on. Believe it or not, we are becoming and will become a generation of killers if gaming culture isn't given a proper rating.

Which is exactly why an R18+ rating doesn't exist. Because the biggest reason people want it is:

 

"Someone told me I can't have something so I'll cry like a little baby till I get it even though it benefits next to no one and adds next to nothing to my gaming experience. Please treat me like an adult even though I choose not to act like one and call me a waambulance while you're at it I think I have a boo boo."

 

Yeah, good luck with that one.

Do you honestly believe, given the opportunity to present a case to the Classification board, that my offhand comments would be my final and definitive argument?

 

"Next to nothing" in a gaming experience, particularly adult themes/sex, is taking it a bit far. Done well, it would add plenty more to a franchise. People are still talking about the g-string sprites in Duke Nukem.

 

Besides, who is crying like a baby? Adults can cry like babies whenever they want, and no one has any right to stop them. Hell, I work for a Council, my job revolves around adults crying like babies and I hold no grudges.

 

Your argument is flawed

I'm always afraid of governments telling me what I can watch, read or say, this includes games.

 

I already have a mom and dad and I'm almost 30 so I can make my own decisions and do not need the extra help.

 

I don't see any difference in kids today and access to violence and porn. I managed to get my hands on more than a few porno's growning up.

 

The only real difference I see is kids don't seem to get a good ol' fasion ass tanning when they step out of line.

 

Why should I be punished because parents don't parent anymore?

Which is exactly why an R18+ rating doesn't exist. Because the biggest reason people want it is.

 

The main reason there is no R18+ rating, is the simple fact that there is no political

upside for it...only political negatives, the politicians know that the religious right,

backed up by the main stream media...have the moral high ground.

 

The average voter...the mums and dads just don't care..Gamers are a minority.

 

I'm 100% with SOP...there is no argument...censorship is censorship. im over

18, a mostly law abiding citizen and have a right to enjoy my self to the fullest.

 

THE ISSUE HERE IS CENSORSHIP.

Edited April 28, 200915 yr by AsamaTatsu

I'm 100% with SOP...there is no argument...censorship is censorship. im over

18, a mostly law abiding citizen and have a right to enjoy my self to the fullest.

 

No, you are definitely not. If everyone was allowed to enjoy themselves to the fullest you'd have rapists, pedophiles and murderers running rampant.

 

And censorship isn't the issue. It exists in all media. Why should video games be any different?

 

There are things that can't be shown on TV. There are things that can't be printed in the newspaper and there are things that can't be filmed in movies.

 

I don't see any difference in kids today and access to violence and porn. I managed to get my hands on more than a few porno's growning up.

 

Agreed so did I. But did you ever get your hands on a copy of Two Girls One Cup when you were a kid? See many vids of bestiality or circus midgets with lesbian siamese twins? Because you had to go to Singapore to get that stuff when I was a kid. Now people send that stuff to you in emails directly to your home.

 

Why should I be punished because parents don't parent anymore?

 

You shouldn't, and I know your stance on the subject and respect that, but I can't buy fireworks in WA for the same reason and nobody complains.

 

So, an R-18 + game should be no different, because in reality (this is something nobody realizes) the fact is these games that are passing censorship but still retain loads of violence are INCREDIBLY dangerous to a young persons developing mind. A kid can be tricked into believing anything, crime and gruesome violence is one of those things that if they are exposed to it enough that young there is a strong chance it will effect their decision making later on. Believe it or not, we are becoming and will become a generation of killers if gaming culture isn't given a proper rating

 

Totally agree. Unfortunately that path of discussion seems to be a dead end for both sides of the argument. It's widely accepted by both sides that no matter what you do the 1% of people who are going to be jerks in life will still be jerks no matter what. And it's been around for so long that the pro and anti factions have enough evidence to stalemate the other everytime.

 

Furthermore, bringing in an R18+ rating system is not going to be cheap. You need millions of dollars for awareness campaigns and enforcement procedures. Probably not the best idea during a recession.

 

The fact is that the gaming industry isn't ready for an adult classification. GTA seems to be the poster child for the argument and there isn't anything in the Australian version that I wouldn't allow a 15+ individual to experience. There isn't any themes in it that they couldn't experience from watching Underbelly on TV and giving it an R18+ rating would just be putting it on a pedestal for everyone to drool over. Plus who played GTA 4 and thought twice about the cut scene that was missing? Not me and I clocked up about 30 hrs on that game.

 

However, if there came a time when Grand Theft Auto put you in the role of Niko Bellics wife who spent her days trying to keep kids in school and fed while surviving on welfare cheques because no one would give Nico a job because he was an immigrant, so he spent all day out drinking only to come home at night and beat your character senseless and didn't give you any attack buttons to fight back. And then sequel was about Nicos son who never got an education and ended up in jail and you spend all your playtime either getting raped by inmates or shivved in the yard then yes I would definitely be asking for an R18 rating.

 

But for the moment, no.

Yes but with no R18 + Rating, many games

(only a few get banned) that are incredibly violent are still available to

young kids that can get it quite easily. The average parent looks at

that MA-15+ Rating and says "Well, a 15 year old is essentially a kid

still, so it must be suitable"

 

 

Spot on, I dont really think this extends so far as censership, As a former employee

of EB Games Australia, Parent's are far too forgiving on purchasing

particular titles for their child, that are imo, Totally inappropriate for the

agegroup.... By approval of an R18+ rating, this boundary would be further

distanced, preventing the loosened judgements of parents allowing such

content to be viewed.

 

Definately, imo some current and proceeding releases should by all means be

given an R18+ rating.

 

I dont really understand why the only seemingly obvious thing holding

this back is bureaucratic black tape........ Nothing is without Change..! :not_i:

 

The very issues that face Gaming, were issues the 'Internet' itself faced as a medium.

The transporter of such Vast content. put aside the negativity of

unpredictability, The employment of the R18+ rating is a means of shaping

unpredictability. It already exists in current 'recognised' mediums.

 

After all, Law - evolves! :aikido:

 

Thats my rabble.:gathering:

Edited April 28, 200915 yr by duanegordon78

The very issues that face Gaming, were issues the 'Internet' itself faced as a medium.

The transporter of such Vast content. put aside the negativity of

unpredictability, The employment of the R18+ rating is a means of shaping

unpredictability. It already exists in current 'recognised' mediums.

 

After all, Law - evolves! :aikido:

 

True, but if anything the internet is well on it's way to making the classification system redundant in much the same way as it put record companies on their backsides. What's an R18+ rating to a 13 year old with mininova?

No, you are definitely not. If everyone was allowed to enjoy themselves to the fullest you'd have rapists, pedophiles

and murderers running rampant.

 

And censorship isn't the issue. It exists in all media. Why should video games be any different?

 

There are things that can't be shown on TV. There are things that can't be printed in the

newspaper and there are things that can't be filmed in movies.

 

Jezz Bish i really didn't think i needed to add the "as long as im not hurting anyone else or

infringing on there rights and freedoms" stuff...That goes without saying surly.

 

So censorship isn't the issue hey...funny cos there appears to be no R18+ or X rating for

video games...if i was a little cynical i could say that its almost like the content that would

fall into those category's had been censored.

 

Bishos could u tell me what i cant see on TV/movies (not internet) because thinking about it,

ive pretty much seen it all....legally.

 

And what im not allowed to see, im totally fine with because i can watch that on the internet

but choose not to....i don't need any authority or organization to tell me whats suitable to see

or not see.

 

Informed Adult and can make my own decisions.

You can't use an illegal act as an example, it's almost like saying nobody cares about copyright laws or artistic property anymore because "some kid can just download it". That is completely absurd, I know I wouldn't like to have my hard work designed to make a profit just outright stolen - would you? At the same time, I can walk into a video store, beat up the clerk, take all the games and videos and walk out. Pretty bad analogy but at some point the two situations have one thing in common, they are both against the law.

 

The internet is such a huge thing that one day in the near future (I think) there will be enough resources available to enforce laws over the internet; at the moment it just seems like communications isn't on everyone's agenda BUT it will be soon enough. As Gimp said, law evolves.

 

News and TV also, like you mention bishos, clearly use censorship in an unflinching manner. But you know why? They are the two most easily accessed and wide spread resource of information in the planet (or at least they were until the internet showed up). Both attempt to appeal to the widest audience available due to the nature of advertisement. These things have been around much longer than the internet and thus laws cater to them.

 

You can't assume that the internet will forever remain an uncensored source of information available to the world - in the future we may find it controlled by our governments just like everything else.

 

Something that also had to have crossed the governments mind is that virtual games are spreading so quickly that soon enough our entire generation will see it as a widely accepted form of entertainment - perhaps even rapidly take a place in culture much like the television. They can't go on forever saying gamers are a minority - maybe the ones that voice their opinion are however.

Edited April 28, 200915 yr by YAK