Ok, this was initially kinda brought up by Aphex in the Server Imporvement area, but I wanna go a bit off topic from what he was discussing and get into the details of Spawn Camping.

 

Yes, it is unfair, but what really is the definition of Spawn Camping?

 

The reason for needing a defintion:

 

Was playing Road to Kyongan'Ni (the map with the river in the middle and a town with a bridge being the focus) as PLA. We'd captured ALL of the US capped flags with the only flag remaining being an uncappable one. If you know the map, the uncap flag in on the top of a tall hill and they can take easy pot shots at another flag beneath. So my squad thought, bugger this and went on TOP of the hill so we weren't in such a vulnerable position, while a small fire team went in a blew a chopper to cut their assets and retreated. We were accused of spawn camping so we cut a hasty retreat, but I thought I'd linger a good 100-150 m away from the spawn, but still on the hill (but was told by my SL to back off even more and get off the hill altogether).

 

On the otherhand, playing EJOD and once again we'd captured every single flag but the last uncap. We even entered the town were the uncap was and shooting away, but no one complained of spawncamping.

 

So (we get to the point)

 

With Spawn Camping (IMO) the rules are:

 

-If there are other flags to be capped - do not sit at the enemy's 'home' flag.

-Do not sit at a Insurg spawn car and cap guys spawning. Blow it and move on.

 

IMO of Acceptable Spawn Camping:

-You find an enemy rally point

(this will change in v.0.6 when you can knife a rp)

 

Grey areas I wanna discuss/clarify are:

If the FINAL flag is uncappable?

How far away from a flag do you have to be to not be spawn camping?

 

Basically, I don't want to be kicked for spawn camping when the rules are unclear.

 

Discuss.

Last flag on EJOD is not an uncap. It is possible to cap it. That's why no one complained of spawncamping.

 

If the flag is an uncap, you shouldn't need to go within 150-200m of it.

If you're doing some kind of behind enemy lines operation like sabotaging assets or blowing a chopper as you did, I don't really see that as spawn camping. Of course, if an enemy spawns, you're going to shoot him for your own sake, but then it'd be best to get the hell out of there as quick as possible.

 

Entering an uncap isn't spawn camping. Sitting there and picking people off as they appear, is.

on Qwai River one night me and my squadies were getting raped by that littlebird with the miniguns so i decided to go take it out when it re amred, so i went behind enemylines to sabotage their air assets. I got there and shot down there attack LB and about 15 secs i got a message saying to stop spawn camping and to live the the main base. So is that considered spawn camping. denying the enemy use of the air assets?

I think a definition should run something along the lines of this -

 

Spawn camping is a intentional and continuous action by a distinct opposing force targeting an uncapable flag while other flags are still contested.

 

So, we need to define a few terms here:

 

Intentional: implies that the opposing force has set an agenda to spawn camp.

Continuous: implies that the opposing force has significant assets that allow it to maintain spawn camping for an indefinite period

 

 

Of course, there will always be some arseholes who find the (very large) loopholes and exploit them. I think the best thing to do is focus on player attitude. Remember, we play for fun, and although it's more fun when we win, we all have to work together to ensure that the game remains fun for everyone.

If you're doing some kind of behind enemy lines operation like sabotaging assets or blowing a chopper as you did, I don't really see that as spawn camping. Of course, if an enemy spawns, you're going to shoot him for your own sake, but then it'd be best to get the hell out of there as quick as possible.

 

Entering an uncap isn't spawn camping. Sitting there and picking people off as they appear, is.

 

Yes. I agree - I do a lot of sabotage and common-or-garden-variety skulduggery and I'll be like a commander and come across the enemy commander lying behind a building... what's a man supposed to do ? I kill him. I kill anyone which spawns in front of me before they kill me. I had the commander mentioned above start spamming text msg's on spawn raping and all that... I found him hiding and I killed him, tough sh!t, I say...

 

Spawncamping rallypoints seems to be commonplace and if anything is just a message to move the RP

Razor]on Qwai River one night me and my squadies were getting raped by that littlebird with the miniguns so i decided to go take it out when it re amred' date=' so i went behind enemylines to sabotage their air assets. I got there and shot down there attack LB and about 15 secs i got a message saying to stop spawn camping and to live the the main base. So is that considered spawn camping. denying the enemy use of the air assets?[/quote']

 

No thats just players having a freaking sook because you stopped their killing spree , tell them to leave if they don't like having their precious killing machine taken out.

If you're doing some kind of behind enemy lines operation like sabotaging assets or blowing a chopper as you did, I don't really see that as spawn camping. Of course, if an enemy spawns, you're going to shoot him for your own sake, but then it'd be best to get the hell out of there as quick as possible.

 

Entering an uncap isn't spawn camping. Sitting there and picking people off as they appear, is.

 

I thinks this sums it up nicely.

 

The enemy are going to yell when you go behind enemy lines and blow assests up. As an admin i would not kick you for doing it. if 5 minutes later they complained again then i would warn and on the 3rd complaint (a few minutes down the track) i would kick is not explaination was forth comming.

 

But it is a grey area and people cry wolf very quickly.

If it is an uncap then you should stay back and give them a chance (not too much of one)

IMO uncaps should be removed from the game. they can cause large numbers of players to leave and maps to last way too long if one team is crap. the next map should come around quick.

Razor]on Qwai River one night me and my squadies were getting raped by that littlebird with the miniguns so i decided to go take it out when it re amred' date=' so i went behind enemylines to sabotage their air assets. I got there and shot down there attack LB and about 15 secs i got a message saying to stop spawn camping and to live the the main base. So is that considered spawn camping. denying the enemy use of the air assets?[/quote']

 

No thats just players having a freaking sook because you stopped their killing spree , tell them to leave if they don't like having their precious killing machine taken out.

 

its was a server message like at the top of the screen were rules nd what not come up.

 

The enemy are going to yell when you go behind enemy lines and blow assests up. As an admin i would not kick you for doing it. if 5 minutes later they complained again then i would warn and on the 3rd complaint (a few minutes down the track) i would kick is not explaination was forth comming.

 

Thanks Darth - if admins could use this as a standard, that'd be a great thing. As you mentioned, it IS a grey area and insta-booting for such a thing would be unjust - and I say this even though I've been on the other end of the scenario and cursed about spawn-camping straight away.

 

Spawn camping is a intentional and continuous action by a distinct opposing force targeting an uncapable flag while other flags are still contested.

 

I like this definition too, but as stated, I had problems with the 'ncapable flag while other flags are still contested' bit. All the other flags were already capped so I thought it'd be ok to be a bit closer to the upcap one, especially where the uncap flag had a huge geographic advantage on top of the hill.

So an admin told you not to?

 

Do you know what night it was?

I don't like people who sit next to a RP and just shoot people that spawn on it. If you find a rally point, you should be emptying every bullet you have into it until it's gone. If someone spawns you shoot them if they notice you but your priority should be removing the rally point.

Spawn camping seems to be a very touchy subject amongst PR players. I think the frustration is also exacerbated by the long spawn times.

 

True spawn camping is shooting a player in their spawn, the PR devs have tried to eliminate this from the game by the use of rally points but some people still seem to get wound up when a squad puts pressure on another flag to prevent reinforcements from attacking the flag the rest of the team is going for. This IMO is totally fine as long as you are standing off the spawns and not shooting enemies on their spawns.

 

Lucid called my squad out for spawn camping the other day for doing the following:

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9466/maohh2.jpg

 

Green dot: my RP.

 

Pink dot: Enemy Supplies

 

Yellow line: our skirmish line to prevent reinforcements having an easy route to Checkpoint bravo.

 

Bassically what happened was, we were getting raped by the chinese chopper so I made the decision to go after it, we took it down pretty easily, and then noticed that there was a supply crate, we regrouped on the supply crate, re-armed and were falling back to the yellow line while 2 other members of my squad were capping CP Bravo.

 

In the course of this action, we were forced to defend ourselves from hostiles trying to move through us from Temple to CP Bravo.

 

This AFAIC is NOT spawn camping. sure the hostiles that we killed coming out of Temple may have been pissed off but it's their own fault for not being fully alert, the fact that the chopper had just been taken down from close to Temple should have alerted the team to the fact there were hostiles in the area.

 

Anyway, I thought I would share with you all this story to see what you think. Maybe some of you do think this is spawn camping, maybe you agree with me that this is legit play.

I would be more inclined to bring your line back to C.D. 5,6

 

It gives you ample room to still defend, and also the opposing team to get their momentum back. If bravo was the only flag to cap before temple, then i would say move it in close.

I don't think that's spawn camping at all.

I don't think that is spawn camping. I set my squad to do similar things on various maps. We don't camp spawns, we just find that most players play in a very linear sort of way at the moment. Ie - they spawn, they head straight for a flag.

So an admin told you not to?

 

Do you know what night it was?

 

An admin (think it was Sandy...can't remember for sure. Just remember that it was someone cool ) who did a general "Don't spawn camp" and it was Sat. night.

 

I didn't mind it at all, and not something I'd critisise the admin for, but since i wasn't sure of the exact rules, I didn't want to argue the point.

 

Edit: and to the above posts - that's the whole point of this. The areas so grey and opinionated. So if some general guideline could be set, it would help things.

Was Ancient man and I was Robbies Squad Leader.

Im not sure what day it was. it was either Darth or Vis they were both usmc and bulletmagnet was the choppa pilot

I was Robbies Squad Leader.

Of course you were. How else did we capture every flag?

They way I figure it is if it's not the last flag to be capped, then you shouldn't be in it unless you are blowing stuff up or sabotaging vehicles. Feel free to kill people who have spawned to save yourself while you were doing the above, but don't feel too free to hop on a mounted weapon and mow them down. Don't feel free to go and hunt them down while they spawn. You are meant to be covert ops ninja pirates. Only say YAR! if you get seen.

 

If it is the last flag and un-capable, and if your team decides that the match should go on, then move it back to at least the last flag you capped prior to let the opposing team re group.

 

Basically if you don't have a need to be in their base, and you are not being team like then you should probably back it up.

i dont think we are going to find a rule that fits every map and situation.

 

i think it is just raising awareness of it and requestiong people in game not to spawn camp.

 

If it is a real problem then tell an admin but for the most part tell the other team to not camp the spawn and tell your team to be careful when spawning.

 

I would be nice to have everyone agree to a set of rules or recommendations in regards to this but i cant see it happening unfortunately.

if the last flag is uncappable just set up defenses at your last flag and hold them off. your get the natural advantage of defending.

They way I figure it is if it's not the last flag to be capped, then you shouldn't be in it unless you are blowing stuff up or sabotaging vehicles. Feel free to kill people who have spawned to save yourself while you were doing the above, but don't feel too free to hop on a mounted weapon and mow them down. Don't feel free to go and hunt them down while they spawn. You are meant to be covert ops ninja pirates. Only say YAR! if you get seen.

 

If it is the last flag and un-capable, and if your team decides that the match should go on, then move it back to at least the last flag you capped prior to let the opposing team re group.

 

Basically if you don't have a need to be in their base, and you are not being team like then you should probably back it up.

 

kudos Kindros Appreciated. And damn well better make the 'YAR!' part of the offical guidelines

Lucid called my squad out for spawn camping the other day for doing the following:

 

Lolo, keep in mind that I was on the enemy team and across the other side of the map. With no real way to check it out and find who was supposedly doing it and only having recieved a report of spawncamping, I do what I usually do. Which would have been some phrasing of "Stop spawncamping, get out of the base."

 

Which is really all I can do. I'm not going to kick people just because one of my team members says the enemy is spawn camping. They could just be having a sook, or, as the case was, you were not spawncamping.

Razor]on Qwai River one night me and my squadies were getting raped by that littlebird with the miniguns so i decided to go take it out when it re amred' date=' so i went behind enemylines to sabotage their air assets. I got there and shot down there attack LB and about 15 secs i got a message saying to stop spawn camping and to live the the main base. So is that considered spawn camping. denying the enemy use of the air assets?[/quote']

 

That was me I told you not to spawn camp it was also another player who was either a marksmen or a Sniper limit kit at our base 'pig farm' and it wasn't because you were shooting the little bird but players were been killed upon spawning at a base you should not have been there. There are many more ways to bring down a little bird that only has miniguns then trekking all the way to the last cappable flag and staying there. There also was a American player who's names escapes me at the Chinese last flag with a marksmen kit who I was keeping a eye on trying to discern if he was spawn camping.