So, after more than four years of hard work and toil, I have finally decided to let my desktop PC rest. Let me mark some of the milestones it passed this year:

 

• Feb/March - My primary drive decides to fail. Not completely mind you, no, I can still access some of the data on it, but anything too big and it sufferes a read/write error and disappears for a while.
  
• June - Somewhat inexplicably, bang - my 17" secondary monitor stops working, completely dead.
  
• September - My CPU, an extremely old Conroe E6300 Core 2 Duo, with a stock speed of 1.8 GHz, magically underclocks itself. I'd been off and on overclocking it to get a half decent performance out of my PC.
  
• October - So, here I am, enjoying a round of PR, first time in ages (and lagging a lot on Fallujah) when suddenly I crash and the computer freezes with a characteristic stuttering noise. Try and power it back on, and an hour later, the PSU dies.
  
• Just now - I had bought a new PSU, case, keyboard, monitor and hard drive and got my computer running again. Gunning in a chopper with Buzzard on Muttrah just an hour ago, I'd just killed an APC when I get lots of artifacting on the screen and my video card does a memory dump. Restart, same thing when I launch PR. Restart, oh, now it is artifacting on the POST screen. Now, I don't exactly know how bad it is, but I suspect my 8800 GTS may have suffered enough abuse.

 

For those curious, here is what it looks like (the ghosting is due to my camera shaking, not the actual graphics):

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7501/1005711.jpg

 

So I have decided to purchase new components as per the title of the thread. I've been waiting for the new AMD 69XX cards to come out and it appears they just have.

 

My options, in increasing order of power:

• AMD 6870 - $319
  
• AMD 6950 - $409
  
• GTX 480 - $399 (or $499 from EVGA, who essentially offer the best warranties ever)
  
• GTX 570 - $459
  
• 2 * GTX 460 (In SLI) - $458
  
• 2 * AMD 6850 (In Crossfire) - $438 (of note - this combination will easily beat a 6970, or even a 5970)
  

 

It may seem obvious that I should go with the dual-card solution, but that has to be balanced against the fact that it removes some of the expansibility, drams more power and creates more heat and noise.

 

With all that out of the way, I am also intending to purchase the new Sandy Bridge processors and motherboards in early January - early benchmarks suggest about a 20% increase in performance for each price point.

 

My intended specs:

 

• CPU: i5-2500K 3.3 GHz (3.7 in Turbo) (or possible the i7-2XXX)
  
• MB: A compatible motherboard (socket 1155) with at least 2 PCI 16x slots
  
• RAM: 8GB DDR3
  
• Graphics: As above
   
   
  
• Mouse: Either Logitech G500 or G700
  

 

The rest I already have:

 

• HD: 1.5 TB, 300 GB (may add another 1/1.5 TB)
  
• Optical Drive: Who knows? I have one, that's enough.
  
• PSU: Antec 750 W
  
• Case: Antec Nine Hundred Two
   
  
• Monitor: 24 inch (16:9) and 22 inch (16:10)
  
• Keyboard: Logitech G110
  

 

So, I was wondering what you guys thought of this proposed build, especially the graphics card(s)?

 

Also, I know that mouse choice is a very individual thing, but what do people think of the G700/G500? What about Razer mice?

Edited December 15, 201015 yr by Adolf Stalin

learn how to use a pc first

learn how to use a pc first

 

I'm sorry, but what?

I'm sorry, but what?

sorry... maybe I should have said "get a job and upgrade" 8800 LOL

sorry... maybe I should have said "get a job and upgrade" 8800 LOL

 

The 8800 was a perfectly fine card when it came out. I've had the cash to pay for a new card (and entire PC) for a while, but I never saw the point with my studies going at the same time - I played a bit of COD4 and single player games when I had the time and inclination. The 8800 GTS I had was the 640 MB version with the older G80 chipset, but it could still run most games up to the start of this year on medium. I've noticed it doesn't cut it in BF:BC2 or some of the other modern games, but still, it suited me ok for my purposes.

 

Also - isn't that exactly what I'm doing right now, upgrading?

ya upgrade isnt to hot.

Dual cpus are the way to go,, and 4x gpu.

GTX 460's are $160 a pop so little more than 300bucks for sli, loving this christmass price war! and the release of ATi's should see further drops!

Personaly I don't compromise when it comes to building a PC, so my advice for free is go a few weeks without drinking or whatever you do for giggles and save for the best, a pair of GTX580's from tiger direct and get them for $1000 for the pair!! cheap when you think 1 unit of 88000 Ultra cost more than1k.

To prevent CPU bottlenecking you will need something with grunt like a i7 960 or better but then you need all the triple channel stuff and the sata 3 stuff, all fits nicely into a cheap Asrock X58 super 6(6 sata 3 connectors) cheap and a tiny bit future ready.

ya upgrade isnt to hot.

Dual cpus are the way to go,, and 4x gpu.

 

the cost of an EVGA C SR-2 plus 2 xeons is only for the foolish

ya upgrade isnt to hot.

Dual cpus are the way to go,, and 4x gpu.

 

You donating that to me? Because frankly that is just an insane waste of money unless you are a professional video producer or compsci researcher.

 

Nothing I want to do needs that and I am not in the habit of just wasting money (I am only a student afterall).

 

Personaly I don't compromise when it comes to building a PC, so my advice for free is go a few weeks without drinking or whatever you do for giggles and save for the best, a pair of GTX580's from tiger direct and get them for $1000 for the pair!! cheap when you think 1 unit of 88000 Ultra cost more than1k.

 

Again, is this really serious? The 6850 draws 250W at full load. The GTX 580 draws that idling! At full load it draws a enormous 500W! If I wanted two of those, I'd need a new PSU, increasing the cost. They also produce a tremendous amount of heat (seriously, 50 degrees celcius at idle, 100 at full load), so with two I'd almost definitely need aftermarket cooling. Finally, they produce a lot of noise, something I'd like to keep reasonably down.

 

Also, I don't have 1k (to spend on these cards), I don't see two of them dropping to that price, no games need that much and if I really wanted to get "the best" I'd go for two 6990s.

 

To prevent CPU bottlenecking you will need something with grunt like a i7 960 or better but then you need all the triple channel stuff and the sata 3 stuff, all fits nicely into a cheap Asrock X58 super 6(6 sata 3 connectors) cheap and a tiny bit future ready.

 

Almost all modern games are GPU limited, not CPU limited, and, if I believe Tom's Hardware, AnandTech and the like, an i5 760 is easily sufficent for gaming.

 

Plus, how is this future proof with the 1155 and 2011 sockets and the Sandy Bridge chips coming in Q1 2011?

 

Thanks for taking the time, but I'm not really sure your advice is that helpful.

money = good PC's

ina you've not really added any value to this topic from what I can see.

 

I'd suggest you move along

Don't laugh at 8800's I still got one

shadow I don't know where you get your info from but it's WAY wrong. the GTX 580 draws 243W at full load and sits on about 54c at idle and 81c running everything at max on a BIG hi res monitor and are quieter than most the cheaper lower spec cards and you must be getting your knowlage of ATi's cards from the same site cos once again your numbers are WAY wrong ATi don't make a better card than nvidia and never ever have, ever(5990? the duel chip was damn close and the 48xx cards equelled really good value. but I hope they 1 day will. they may make cheaper cards but at a cost of dumbed down graphics that TBO is only eye candy that most don't notice anyway, FPS is not the only bench mark when buying a GPU the image its self should be the primary test.

Sandy Bridge's details are scratchy, Guru3D has asus's mobo specs for that platform and it doesn't giveaway any secrets to what sandy bridge will really look like in the wild. I have heard that it's all about multi cores and "greener" profile and will not supersede i7 performance chips.

Your last PC lasted 4 years and I'd hope this sort of build would last about 3 or 4 years aswell, for atleast 25% of that 4 years every time you fired it up for a good gaming session, you would smile, like getting in your Lambo to drive to work, you'd smile every time. much better than spending 4 years infront of a compromise that will need ongoing updates for it to keep pace.

Ignoring the trolling in the thread -

 

How important is the ol' visual quality to you? I surmise that since you waited till 2010 with the 8800GTS, it's not particularly important. If this is indeed the case I would suggest going for the best performance/$ ratio, which is obviously the crossfired/SLI solutions.

 

Also, some of your prices are a bit out of date:

* AMD 6870 - $280

* AMD 6950 - $460

* GTX 480 - $399

* GTX 570 - $440

* 2 * GTX 460 (In SLI) - $380

* 2 * AMD 6850 (In Crossfire) - $420

i had a 8800gts too until it died from over heating.

looked it up and apparently those card do have a heating issue that kills the card.

not surprising when they run up to 70-80c on load and the threshold is 114c.

now running an ati 5700 and it all sweet and no more 70c + temps.

 

i would personally choose ati as they usually run cooler than nvidia (unless that has changed) and they dont suck up electricity like water.

 

anyways wasnt a lot of the nvidia 400 series just re-branded older models?

anyways wasnt a lot of the nvidia 400 series just re-branded older models?

 

I believe you're thinking of the 2xx series

Nvidia are known for rehashing older chips. the 9800's I think was rebadged 8800gs and the 580 is a fixed rebadged 480. the 2xx was the first of the fermi's.

the new ATi 6970 is on par with a GTX480 or a GTX570 with on par power and heating to the 570. the new ATi now have support for 3D gaming and that puts them on par with nvidia, there is perhaps less differance than ever before.

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=16269 a pair for $320sli over xfire but maybe there is less differance there aswell

How important is the ol' visual quality to you? I surmise that since you waited till 2010 with the 8800GTS, it's not particularly important. If this is indeed the case I would suggest going for the best performance/$ ratio, which is obviously the crossfired/SLI solutions.

Well, you could say that - I've made do with low settings on BC2, Crysis and the other 2009/2010 games, but I would like some modicum of improvement over that for the next few years - say being able to run games from 2011/2012 at 1920 * 1080 on high(ish) settings with some AF and AA.

 

I understand that I am being quite vague in what I want, so perhaps you could explain your take on the new AMD cards in comparison to GeForce.

 

From many of the tech sites out there, I've come to understand that hardware requirements to play modern games have started to plateau somewhat, and that even mid-range specification graphics can run most games on high settings with acceptable frame rates.

 

Also, some of your prices are a bit out of date:

My prices are from PC Case Gear. Generally speaking, I like to restrain myself to the online shops with good repute on this list - AusPCMarket, PC Case Gear, IJK, Umart and so on. So far I've purchased from PC Case Gear on three occasions and found them to be reliable and fairly cheap.

 

The other thing that may have impacted the prices I listed was the manufacturer I selected - EVGA for Nvidia cards, due to their lifetime warranty and factroy overclocking and generally Gigabyte or ASUS for AMD/ATI cards.

 

Thank you very much for your input, I appreciate it.

 

shadow I don't know where you get your info from but it's WAY wrong. the GTX 580 draws 243W at full load and sits on about 54c at idle and 81c running everything at max on a BIG hi res monitor and are quieter than most the cheaper lower spec cards

 

Power draw and temperature when idling

Swapping over to a display running a different resolution, however, continues to have a profound effect on power and temperatures (Nvidia does not deny this). The jump from 192 W to 255 W and 45 degrees to 56 degrees is significant.

I run two monitors at different resolutions. These figures are at idle - for one card.

 

Power draw and temperature under load.

 

You'll note that the protective circuitry on the GTX 580 doesn't even allow it to run FurMark, but given that it is comparable to the GTX, you are looking at between 400 and 500 watts of power draw and around 100 degrees celsius.

 

Tom's Hardware not enough for you?

 

Now, I will admit looking at AnandTech's figures that figuring out SLI/CF power draw isn't as simple as doubling the individual card's figures, but even with that said, perhaps a 0.7 times increase?

 

The point I was making was that purchasing two GTX 580s was much more expensive than just 1k AUD - probably closer to 2k for the cards, PSU, cooling, larger monitors (why would I buy these cards to play in 1920 * 1080?) and then another 1k for the MB/Processor (I reckon you would actually be bottlenecking the GPUs with only an i5). Not to mention you'd need a 1336 or 2011 socket board just to get two 16x PCI lanes.

 

A more realistic high end build would be one GTX 580 or AMD 6970/6990 and a mid range i7 2XXXK. The i7 960 is probably overkill.

 

you must be getting your knowlage of ATi's cards from the same site cos once again your numbers are WAY wrong ATi don't make a better card than nvidia and never ever have, ever(5990? the duel chip was damn close and the 48xx cards equelled really good value.

 

Sorry, but the ATI 5970 beats the GTX 580, and it is a generation younger. (Ok, I think the 580 was actually supposed to compete with the 5870 level, but still, ATI hold both the performance and value title). Now, it is a dual GPU card, but you only said card - not GPU. I believe the 6970 just missed out on beating the GTX 580, and, I will admit, sometimes loses to the 570. But hey, the 6990 will destroy them anyway and will probably still manage lower heat, noise and power draw.

 

Also, I really don't want to have to source it (this post has gone on long enough), but AnandTech have a fair bit on Sandy Bridge.

 

Thanks at least for your advice Psyrus and Puff.

AMD 6850 (In Crossfire) - $438 (of note - this combination will easily beat a 6970, or even a 5970)

this would be my choice. one thing i would do tho is look at all your options and compare them with how YOU want to game ie. Res, eye candy options etc and then buy what meets those criteria. When i bought my current card (Sapphire X1950XTX) i read all the reviews about various cards and the nVidia 7950 was a much better card . . . . at resolutions ABOVE what i was going to be gaming at with all the eye candy options (i was upgrading from a 17" trinitron to a 19" LCD, so was going to be at 1280x1024). At the res i was going to game at tho, nothing beat the X1950XTX so thats why i bought that one.

My intended specs:

 

RAM: 8GB DDR3

personally i'd go for more than that, 12Gb min (you said Intel, so thinking triple channel here, also 3x4Gb DIMMS allowing for more down the track). Read a review on memory (think it was either Toms or Anand) where they compared 8, 12 and 16gigs against each other and there were improvements in the system even in gaming (16 didn't have much of an improvement over 12 tho).

 

Also, I know that mouse choice is a very individual thing, but what do people think of the G700/G500? What about Razer mice?

 

Have pretty much always used Logitech (still have my old PS/2 Logitech 'Gaming' mouse), currently run a G5 on my PC and a VX Nano for my Mac. Never had any problems with Logi. From what I've read elsewhere, I'd pic a Logi over a Razer anyday.

 

Having said that tho, my next mouse will prolly be a RAT 7 just to try something a bit different (o:

 

Good luck tho and have fun shopping (o:

personally i'd go for more than that, 12Gb min (you said Intel, so thinking triple channel here, also 3x4Gb DIMMS allowing for more down the track). Read a review on memory (think it was either Toms or Anand) where they compared 8, 12 and 16gigs against each other and there were improvements in the system even in gaming (16 didn't have much of an improvement over 12 tho).

 

1155/Sandy Bridge is dual channel IIRC. Board would likely have 4 slots, so I'm thinking 2 X 4GB for the moment.

 

Have pretty much always used Logitech (still have my old PS/2 Logitech 'Gaming' mouse), currently run a G5 on my PC and a VX Nano for my Mac. Never had any problems with Logi. From what I've read elsewhere, I'd pic a Logi over a Razer anyday.

 

Basically my choice is between the G500 and G700. I've used a G5 before and the ergonomics are fine - the G500 is very similar. On the other hand the G700 is wireless, more precise and has more buttons, but (from reviews) could be laggy, is quite heavy, has a plasticy texture, a very stiff cord, possibly buttons in the way, a different shape and the sensor is in a strange position.

 

Thanks for your advice.

Edited December 15, 201015 yr by Adolf Stalin

Well, you could say that - I've made do with low settings on BC2, Crysis and the other 2009/2010 games, but I would like some modicum of improvement over that for the next few years - say being able to run games from 2011/2012 at 1920 * 1080 on high(ish) settings with some AF and AA.

 

I understand that I am being quite vague in what I want, so perhaps you could explain your take on the new AMD cards in comparison to GeForce.

 

From many of the tech sites out there, I've come to understand that hardware requirements to play modern games have started to plateau somewhat, and that even mid-range specification graphics can run most games on high settings with acceptable frame rates.

I think you are misreading the graphs Shadow, as almost every review site uses total system draw, not the individual component draw (as I believe it would involve hacking up the PSU in a rather dodgy way to see the voltage passing over its 12v rail accurately)

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/11/09/nvidia-geforce-gtx-580-review/8

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4008/nvidias-geforce-gtx-580/17

 

The GTX580 SLI solution used a maximum (furmark) of 777W of system wide power draw, that's everything down to the fans. Take the usual 125W for the CPU, throw in ~50w for case fans/hdds/mobo and say ~40w(?) for ram, you're looking at around 280W each for the 580s. That being said, your point remains that with a 25% cap degredation buffer you'd be looking at a 950W-1kW psu for the gtx580SLI.

 

I also think the overclocking potential/headroom in the new i5/i7 range will mitigate most if not all of the potential CPU bottleneck worries... so spend a bit on a decent CPU cooler hey

 

With regards to the red vs green team, to be honest I just buy whatever is best value for money @ the visual quality I like most at the time (I don't like playing @ less than high with 4xAA). I've owned a roughly equal % of red & greens over the course of my gaming, and think that having a particular 'allegiance' to either side is a bit silly. If it was me, right now, I'd probably take the gamble on 2x6850/6870s, due the high high performance: price ratio.

 

I'm not sure what you've read about the 'plateau' of games lately, but things like Metro and A2:OA bring high end systems to their knees, and mid range systems sacrifice a decent amount of eye candy to maintain 60fps+

 

Finally, if you wish to pay the premiums for certain stores over others (or brands) then so be it - your money & piece of mind at the end of the day

 

----

Oh and I have a G500 and it's fine... The laser placement takes a bit of adjustment but aside from that, it's a G5 with an extra button and different scroller. Oh the sensitivity buttons right there on mouse1 can be very annoying though if you slip and misfire while holding a RPG facing a wall :disgust:

Oh the sensitivity buttons right there on mouse1 can be very annoying though if you slip and misfire while holding a RPG facing a wall :disgust:

experience talking there?

I think you are misreading the graphs Shadow, as almost every review site uses total system draw, not the individual component draw (as I believe it would involve hacking up the PSU in a rather dodgy way to see the voltage passing over its 12v rail accurately)

Oh, you are correct. My apologies Puff. Still, my point remains that 2 x GTX 580 isn't really the solution I'm looking for. And I probably would want a higher rated PSU, just for that extra margin.

 

I'm not sure what you've read about the 'plateau' of games lately, but things like Metro and A2:OA bring high end systems to their knees, and mid range systems sacrifice a decent amount of eye candy to maintain 60fps+

I'm not sure where I read it so I'll take your word that this is the case.

 

At this point I'll probably go with either the 2 x AMD 6850 or one 6870 with the intention to add another should I come across a game that needs it (at my desired settings).

 

Thanks again for your advice.

Can I suggest throwing in a modest SSD as well, while you're in the upgrading mood It doesn't so much help the gaming (except for ARMA2) but your day2day OS will fly rather than slink lazily upon the beaten path

It doesn't so much help the gaming (except for ARMA2) but your day2day OS will fly rather than slink lazily upon the beaten path

 

Haha, best quote ever.

 

This thread has been an inspiration to me and my quest for a better computer.