http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/7950531/afghan-incident-next-of-kin-advised

 

Whats changed with the war? I understand that the ?Dutch? Pulled out, and the US have started removing troops. But what's changed? We've lost more than half of the total troop numbers since june this year. And this next one is barely a week after the last!

 

I'm not a military expert, far from it, and please correct me if I'm wrong. But can someone explain what's happened? Have we moved into a heavily controlled territory?

"Have we moved into a heavily controlled territory?" as far as what i can understand that isnt soo much the case as rhodsey said in another threads its mostly ADF has started to run out of "luck"

i doubt the amount of IED's they come across atm is any more or less then they came across 4 years ago its just now our diggers have been getting hit.

 

heres a list with info on ADF deaths in Afgahnistan. in 2010 its been IED's and a heli crash. not firefights

 

http://gc.nautilus.org/Nautilus/australia/afghanistan/casualties-adf

Alot has changed, the most important thing being the breakdown of the Taliban's grip on the region. The hearts and minds groups are doing a very good job winning over the people of Afghanistan.

 

And the current Operation Moshtarak offensive, for all intents and purposes, seems to be effective.

 

I think it's more of a case of "will it be enough?". It's the kind of war that requires the US and Coalition to stay for another 10 years with a strong focus on education. But I don't think anyone is that supportive of the war.

Edited August 24, 201014 yr by hous_bin_farteen

Im not an eggsplurt either. So here is my take on it.

 

Australian Troops operate in the Oruzgan Province. Oruzgan is located just north of the Kandarhar and Helmand Province where the majority of the Operation Enduring Freedom casualties have been taken. (They also venture into the Kandarhar and other neighbouring provinces)

 

Is it possible Taliban forces have moved futher north in higher numbers? yes, but what is more likely is that either a considerable amount of explosives have made to the area or a new bomb maker.

 

Are casualties on the increase? It looks to be that way. Yes

 

Are IED deaths on the increase? No it doesnt look like it. It has always been the major killer of Coalition forces in Afganistan.

 

Have IED's increased in Australian area's of operation? You would have to ask someone that knows one of the sappers in the area. All i can tell you is Australia has taken more casualties this year then the whole time we have been in Afganistan, 8 years? Over 50% of these are IED related.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8-24-2010 Not Yet Reported Australian Army

8-21-2010 Not yet Reported Australian Army

8-21-2010 Not yet Reported Australian Army

 

 

 

 

8-20-2010 Dale, Thomas Private 21

6th Battalion Australian Army

 

 

8-20-2010 Kirby, Grant Private 35

6th Battalion Australian Army

 

 

8-14-2010 Brown, Jason Trooper 29

Australian Army

 

 

7-09-2010 Bewes, Nathan Private 23

6th Battalion Australian Army

 

 

6-21-2010 Palmer, Scott Travis Private 27

2nd Commando Regiment Australian Army

 

 

6-21-2010 Aplin, Timothy James Private 38

2nd Commando Regiment Australian Army

 

 

 

6-21-2010 Chuck, Benjamin Private 27

2nd Commando Regiment Australian Army

 

 

 

6-07-2010 Moerland, Jacob Sapper 21

2nd Combat Engineer Regiment Australian Army

 

 

 

6-07-2010 Smith, Darren Sapper 26

2nd Combat Engineer Regiment Australian Army

 

 

 

7-18-2009 Ranaudo, Benjamin Private 22

1st Battalion Australian Army

 

 

 

3-19-2009 Till, Brett Sergeant 31

Incident Response Regiment Australian Army

 

 

3-16-2009 Hopkins, Mathew Corporal 21

7th Battalion Australian Army

 

 

1-04-2009 Sher, Gregory Michael Private 30

Special Operations Task Group Task Group Australian Army

 

 

11-27-2008 Fussell, Michael Lieutenant 25

4th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment (Commando) Australian Army

 

 

7-07-2008 McCarthy, Sean Signaller 25

Special Operations Task Group (SOTG) Australian Army

 

 

4-27-2008 Marks, Jason Lance Corporal 27

4th Battalion (Commando), the Royal Australian Regiment Australian Army

 

 

11-23-2007 Worsley, Luke Private 26

Special Operations Task Group Australian Army

 

 

10-25-2007 Locke, Matthew Sergeant

Special Air Service Regiment Australian Army

 

 

10-08-2007 Pearce, David Trooper 41

2nd/14th Light Horse Regiment Australian Army

 

 

2-16-2002 Russell, Andrew Robert Sergeant 33

Special Air Service Regiment Australian Army

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lest we forget

Edited August 25, 201014 yr by Matrix

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/australians-soldiers-in-afghanistan-incident/story-e6frg8yo-1225909698365

 

Someone make a new thread for this digger too, please.

just another fail vietnam

I don't want to get into arguements/political debates, but floyd that comment just shows a lack of understanding and pigheadedness that shouldn't be shown here.

He's entitled to his opinion, just like you are.

yes i am very aware of that, just comments like that are bound to end in trouble

just another fail vietnam

 

http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/7281/original/blurb_facepalm2_20090622.jpg

I think he means "just another fail vietnam" in terms of the fact that its starting to look like a war that simply cannot be won, and that its very much guerilla forces .v. conventional forces.

 

and in that regard, how wrong is he? Im not anti-Iraq/Afghan conflict, but does it really look like the Middle East situation can be "won"?

I agree with python, and frankly opinions such as those shouldn't be fully warranted, it's borderline trolling.

 

Orūzgān has the highest IED threat than any other province, hence being our primary cause of casualties.

 

When we first went to Afghanistan, people disliked everyone and were scared of talking to them [they would be executed under Taliban law for assisting an invading force]. 9 years on, people openly walk up to diggers around patrol base regions and hug them, laugh with them, and offer them goods. Coming from a country suffering centuries of repression that says a lot.

 

The Quettta Shura Taliban are sophisticated when it comes to political power as over the decades they have married into families of major villages and influential figures which creates difficulties when trying to buy over allegiances, as social and religious beliefs dictate against that.

 

So yes, we have made major ground, but it will go on for another 10 years at least to build a stable government with the ability to stand for itself. I just hope there's no debate for people to get a chance to tell the military how to do its job, that really ****s me up the walls when politicians and hillbilly's think they know better about dealing with the situation.

Edited August 25, 201014 yr by 『Tits Mc TIts』

just another fail vietnam

 

 

 

I believe the topic is about "Middle East ... What's Changed?" not Vietnam

 

 

:hi:

 

 

So yes, we have made major ground, but it will go on for another 10 years at least to build a stable government with the ability to stand for itself. I just hope there's no debate for people to get a chance to tell the military how to do its job, that really ****s me up the walls when politicians and hillbilly's think they know better about dealing with the situation.

 

 

Thats the way i see it playing out aswell.

Edited August 25, 201014 yr by Matrix

whats this situation of pulling out without achieving anything akin to?

 

we had this discussion on our forums a few weeks ago and the general consensus is that we cannot "win" this "war".

Excuse me for being ignorant..

But why that Fark are we there aside from trying to get a bit of American brown on our noses?

Thanks for ya input Pink.

 

I am also wondering........................

 

Middle East ... What's Changed?

for those that are saying that IED threats hasnt gone up in the past 5 years or so, well to put it bluntly your wrong... just finished reading the book "Spoken from the front" by Andy McNab (ex brit sas) and am nearly finished "Ground Truth" by Patrick Bishop (both highly recomended if you want to understand more about the conflict btw). both books are from the point of few of the brits in Helmand Province, spoken from the front puts together many many first hand accounts from soldiers,airmen, MP's, Medics and really any1 over there, and then organises it into a timeline. while ground truth follows the conflict during 2008 with 3para. no while i cant be stuffed to qoute anything in both of these books it shows that during 2006 (when the brits took over Helmand Province) the majority of KIA and WIA were due to firefights, this was when the taliban was trying full frontal assualts against the coalition, and well, they were geting cut to peices, only in 2007/2008 did they start to switch to IED's and major hit and run tactics, so to say that they have been a gorilla force this entire time is wrong.

 

also i strongly feel we need to stay there to finish the job, i could go on for another 2000 words to explain why but why bother when i know most people here still wont change their mind...

 

theres a saying that the soldiers give the taliban (from the taliban, as if they are saying it lol) "you may have the watches, but we have the time" meaning all they need to do is inflict maybe 1 kia every week, and hold out, and well soon enough the people back home are going to cry and want to pull our boys out, as soon as that happens they win, afghanistan g oes back into chaos and once againt becomes a safe haven for extremest groups..

 

oh and if you want to get picky afghanistan really isnt the middle east, its more south-west asia..

 

but in the end i honestly think this thread should be locked... time and time again its been proven that this community can not stay calm and mature discussing such a heated topic...

 

Middle East ... What's Changed?

 

nothing. countries are pulling out soldiers. what has been achieved? please tell me.

INB4LOCK

 

seriously guys this thread just screams out LOCK ME !

 

2 Cents , Floyd bear in mind a lot has changed since Vietnam. No Coalition Solider is pressed into service , The terrain of Afghanistan doesn't have square km's of lush green vegetation like Vietnam and the mountain areas are patrolled by UAV's and IED's are more and more Disarmed by Robots. Of course we invaded Afghanistan because of who the Taliban gave shelter to and what they did. SO Vietnam is not a very good comparison

my last post in this thread...

 

now all of this is taken from the book "ground truth" but may have been reworded by me when typing. and also keep in mind this is JUST from helmand province... one of the most hostile parts of the country to date, and is dated in 2008....

 

a comercial bank had opened in lashkar gah and a restaurant in musa qaleh. A marble factory had been privatised and a local business man was investing $6 million in an oilseed press that would form part of an agribusiness park. Small businessmen had benefited from loands worth 100,000 pounds. Some seemed o signify real progress, such as $1.3 million spent on improvements to a canal, which increased the supply of water to the fields of 10,000 farmers. British funding had resulted in nearly 2500 new wells being dug, which benefited more than 400,000 people. ABout sixty kilometers of main highway had been resurfaced and repairs done to roads in lashkar Gah, Sangin, Musa Qaleh and Gereshk.

 

The same towns had received some benefit from quick-impact projects. these had been built by local afghan reconstruction companies but managed by the royal engineers on behalf of trhe PRT. The latest figures available showed that 114 had been completed, forty-two were ongoing and sixty more were planned.

 

could go on but whats the point, most people are simply to blind to see past the kia count...

Read the book "The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East" by Robert Fisk - is my advice you'll see the problem is much larger than the scope of the present day media, or in fact Afghanistan.

just another fail vietnam

 

+1 and good onya for saying it.

 

Very short and blunt, but it expresses a lot.

 

Post modern warfare does result in post modernist comment too. The use of the term 'fail' summed up a lot. Quite brilliant.

Just want to say. I did not ask for all of you 'trolls' to come in here and start calling this 'another vietnam'. My mother and I were interested as to why the KIA count had increased, thankyou Rhodesy, your a legend and I wish more people in this thread had a brain as half as big as yours.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but what goes wrong is when some stick their noses where it isnt needed or wanted.

 

So, moderator, please delete those posts which all start blabling on about off-topic situations.

 

And once again thankyou Rhodesy, Krazier, Icehollowpoint, bigsomkee, moonbugger, delta51 and anyone else that answered my question. I would love to see if anyone else has any USEFUL information as to the situation and whether or not it has changed.

 

Please, keep it on topic, or stay out.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee118/bahlye/offtopic.gif

 

"your constant stupidity, go google if you dont want opinions you childish idiot." - PinkFloyd ... great dude. Your real mature. Im neither childish, nor immature. I asked a question. Your the one who came in here an said something OT

Edited August 25, 201014 yr by crawfs

Im not anti-Iraq/Afghan conflict, but does it really look like the Middle East situation can be "won"?

For one, Afghanistan isn't in the middle east. Its part of south west Asia/central Asia, mainly due to difference in language and ethnicity from Arabic nations.

 

Iraq is a success story. A few weeks ago, 4th Stryker BCT left (the last combat unit) leaving only advisers and supply troops behind to assist the Iraqis. Currently, troop numbers are at the lowest since the invasion (). As with any asymmetric war this is how it would progress, in addition the Iraqi Army and police are showing increased professionalism and patriotism unlike the ANA who are much more 'lax' and untrained.

 

Afghanistan is going to be more and more of a problem in regards to safety and deaths, but generally the country was a failed state before NATO troops moved in. Lack of schools, gender balance (even for an Islamic state) hospitals and civil liberties were decent grounds for an invasion. But the Taliban have changed, and as demonstrated by many interviews they no longer fight for their beliefs and laws but more so to simply kill coalition solders. Apparently, we want to destroy Islam.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkcBs1d2PYE&feature=channel]YouTube- EXCLUSIVE -Talibans: what they're fighting for[/ame]

 

Like Rhodesy said, stay there till the job is done.

Thanks dtacs. That helps. ^_^