What's the opinion of the communty. Theres been a lot of commentry both in game and in the forums - so let the Head Admins hear our thoughts to help them make a decision.

 

Yes or No on whether the ping limit should be re-introduced on BigD servers - whilst acknowledging that this poll may not sway the Head Admins in their decision making process..

Edited December 30, 200915 yr by Sapper28

Voted no... right now there are 14 players on the server with a ping >200 out of a total of 56. Based on my belief that a players ping has little effect on gameplay (other than their own) and none on server lag I would prefer to play on a more populated server than not.

Voted yes - attempting (and failing, unless you have an LMG) to hit people with 300+ pings is not my idea of fun.

If you can't hit a 300 pinger I think you need to calibrate your hand/eye coordination, it's easier than killing anyone else.

 

Voted no.

Voted no - Everyone should get a chance to play on our sweet servers + high pingers make no difference IMO.

Vote no - not being kicked during pingspikes are awsome

Voted no.

 

It's your ping to the server which depends on if you hit the other person or not, not the other persons ping. It's the server that detects whether or not you hit or not, not the client. The client sees enemy based on where the server puts them, and where the server reports to the client where they are. If you have a 50 ping, you will see them within 50ms of where the server places them. If you have a 300 ping, you will see them within 300ms of where the server places them. You have movement prediction to stop the lag jump from the client reporting to the server where they are every 300ms or whatever the ping is.

 

It's pretty complicated stuff, and there's a lot more going on obviously, and that probably didn't make much sense , but to make things simple... High pings do NOT affect people with lower pings trying to hit them, and does not cause the server lag (in fact, even if it did cause lag, it would be the lower ping players causing lag, because they are sending data at a much faster rate), because of the simple fact that it is the server who decides if you hit or not, not the client.

 

Added to the other reasons of you get a more populated server with high pingers filling the spots, low pingers are just as likely to cause problems than high pingers, and you get more interesting games by playing with different people, instead of the same people over and over.

Edited December 30, 200915 yr by fAithleSs

Man I drew a diagram to explain it on paint but I started drinking so I messed it up, I'll explain the basic mechanics later on lol

 

In short, an individuals ping affects them and them only.

Sorry Ryza, but you're wrong.

 

First and foremost - what is a ping?

Ping is a computer network administration utility used to test whether a particular host is reachable across an Internet Protocol (IP) network and to measure the round-trip time for packets sent from the local host to a destination computer, including the local host's own interfaces.

 

What a ping is, in regards to Battlefield 2, is the time that it takes a packet to leave your computer, travel across many networks and arrive at the server.

 

Battlefield 2 was designed to be played by players who have a 100ms ping. This is because when BF2 was brought out, that was the average ping that most of EA's customers would expect to get from a server, given residential internet speeds and ISP backbone capacity. Things have improved over the years.

 

So how do different pings affect the way you play? Well, the round trip time (or your ping) is never constant - it goes up and down, dependent on your traffic, your ISP's traffic, and all of the traffic travelling across the many networks you need to go through to get to the server. Also, the other person's ping is never constant. Therefor, the server can't anticipate where you're going to be and when - so you have to compensate with your aiming.

 

If you're 20ms from the server, the server knows where you are pretty much straight away. To exagerate the point, if the other person is 1 second away from the server (that' 1000ms) then every movement that person takes is going to take 1020ms before you see it on your screen. It doesn't seem like much, but when you're aiming at a moving target over 50m, it makes a massive difference.

 

Without knowing someone's ping - which is impossible in PR - how do you know where to shoot?

 

Below is a diagram I've drawn up:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a214/basilrocks/BF2_Shooting.png

 

Given that people don't have their pings hovering above their heads, and given that you have no idea who is at the end of your aiming sights, so you can't say "Oh, that's Bob on the other team, his ping is 300ms, I have to aim in front of him as he runs away from the tank behind me", then having people with a high ping on our server is a bad idea, as it will lead to frustrating game play. Why? Because you won't be able to hit people with a high ping.

 

Is playing with a full server and having people quit because they rage over not being able to kill someone better than playing with 50 people? I say no, it's not better.

 

Quality over quantity IMHO.

Edited December 30, 200915 yr by efgh146

I voted yes, thinking of the following situation:

- pub match, post 0.9 release, full server/s.

 

My reason is that I'd prefer spots were used by aussie/nz community members and future community members, not international randoms. Not being xenophobic, just prefer to see the community here flourish as the first priority.

 

If there's a way to set the ping limit to activate only on a full/fullish server then I'd be happier with that, as under low server numbers I dont have an issue with ppl with higher pings playing, although it is annoying.

 

Also if the sensitivity level of the ping kick could be reduced somehow (by length of ping spike, not just ping reached) - that would be good too.

I meant with a server in place, not the case with P2P. What you see on your screen is what the server registers from the data it receives from the client (the high pinger in this case). What your fire at on your screen, and hit (in BF2) is what the server is relaying to your game. Therefore the player on the other end is receiving the hits against them as what the server receives as input from the player/players on the other side.

 

In short, you can fire at someone in the game where in realtime, it would be a complete miss, but because of the delay in the data being sent from them it simply becomes a PITA case for the high pinged player who is seemingly hit by bullets flying behind him.

Edited December 30, 200915 yr by YAK

Stabs, you are missing the point about server side hit detection vs client side hit detection. BF2 is server side, and your argument is what would happen if it was client side.

 

Since it is server side, it only relies on YOUR ping to the server.

So you're saying that the server looks 1 second into the future and decides where the other player is going to be? Does the server also decide if that player is going to stop and/or prone or crouch?

 

The server can only deal with information that it receives - it's not going to go about making decisions on behalf of the players by itself. Likewise, it's not going to keep 64 instances of the server running so that it knows exactly what it's sending to every single client. It receives information, then pushes it, it doesn't receive information, store it, compute it into 64 different pieces of information and push it out to all of the clients. If it were to do this for every single client, the amount of computations that it would have to do would be exponentially insane.

 

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=50757&p=1

 

For stationary targets, ping has no bearing. For moving targets, it's impossible for the server to get accurate hit detection because it doesn't know:

1. If the player is going to stop moving

2. If the player is going to change direction

3. If the player is going to change position

 

I'm happy to be proven right or wrong with some firm evidence. We could prove it by using:

1. A %100 accurate gun

2. An enemy at 20ms ping

3. An enemy at 100ms ping

4. An enemy at 300ms ping

5. FRAPs

6. Some good aiming

 

Let's put it to the test and see how it goes.

Not knowing exactly how prediction works in BF2, I'm guessing it does something along the lines of keeping you moving in the direction you are moving.

 

To show an example of how it works in BF2, here's this...

 

player1 has 50ms ping

player2 has 300ms ping

 

player2 takes 150ms to send his info to the server (because ping is the round trip). In the interval between every 150ms of info, the server predicts what he is going to do and moves him to that position. This removes jumpy player movement for other players viewing player2. This gives jumpy player movement to player2, since it is the server deciding where they are in the world. That is why you see when you play with a high ping, your controls are laggy, and you don't stop exactly when you said stop.

 

player1 sees player2, he shoots. Because it takes 25ms for the server to detect he is shooting and register a hit, he should have no problems hitting player2. player2 would have a much harder time hitting player1, since it takes 150ms for the server to detect he is shooting, and to register a hit.

 

This makes server side hit detection be in favor of lower ping players, and makes high ping players not affect hit detection for lower ping players, it would only affect themselves.

 

If it was client side prediction, it would take 175ms for player1 to register a hit on player2, plus another 175ms for player1 to see the hit on their screen. In this case, high ping players would affect lower ping players, but this is not the case in Battlefield 2.

Edited December 30, 200915 yr by fAithleSs

Regardless, the ping of a player affects your aiming.

 

Using your examples, if Player 2 did a 90 degree turn mid run, he would have warped on Player 1's screen, because the server would have assumed he was going in a straight line. So the server has to back track his position to the point of where he turned, then push him forward to where he is now. The effect that Player 1 would have seen is Player 2 jumping from point A to point B.

 

Theory is all well and good, but video evidence and personal experience has disproved it. I'm happy to be proven wrong.

 

AMan, would you be able to make a %100 accurate gun? I could probably scrounge around for a spare server, or if anyone has one we could use that would be awesome. Then we just need a guinea pig from East Australia, New Zealand and US/UK.

Naa, player2 would only jump from A to B on his screen, for player1, they just would've just turned sharply. This is because the players see where the server places them, even for the people controlling them, and player1 can see this info quicker than player2, lessening any jumpiness. If player1 is seeing player2 jump around, it would be player1 experiencing a ping spike or something, causing a delay for the server to send player2's location info to player1.

 

Just use a 50cal on a Humvee for an accurate gun . I could even set up a server if you really need it, someone can just download stuff to represent high ping . It will be interesting to see what testing shows, but too all my knowledge, high ping will only affect themselves, and will cause zero affect on both the server and other players.

Yeah let's do it, get some solid results either way!

voted yes.

I for one do NOT want to see anymore of those swiss ^&*#T%$*&T^*T#%*T^&*%$&*%*#%%%&%*&@ coming in, stealing (and losing) our assets, then spamming our global with how good they are when we get taken out as a direct result of their incompetence.

Leave it off until 0.9, if there were no internationals populating the server we would be playing with less people. Keep them here just to seed the server per-say.

voted yes, after 2nite,what a $#@$%%$$%@%#$^@%$#$^@%@%@#%#@^ of a waste of assets.

That is a really long swear word...

 

I voted no, from my time playing I have never really noticed any problems playing with people with higher pings, normally they have just as many deaths on the scoreboard as everybody else.. so their obviously getting shot enough.

 

And after playing PR for a fair while AND vanilla BF2 for the last few weeks.. theres probably more tards in Aus and NZ than a LOT of other places.

Edited December 30, 200915 yr by f00bear

well me and deggy were very very very angry.

 

I would much rather play with an acceptable level of AUSTRALIAN tards, which we know will be affected by the bans we put on them, and we can see them around again, then have another round like I did tonight.

I almost rage quit. Almost.

Its something i never do...

ye muttrah was horrible all game we had abour 2 pilots with a ping under 300

Its the fact that pings are attached to those from overseas.

 

Those overseas are generally (and the above posts can attest to this fact) attatched to losing assets, not joining squads or making locked squads, making squads before 1:30, and being general idiots.

 

 

There will never be a time in bD when an admin can always be on and ready to ban someone before they do something stupid - having a ping limit is essentially an umbrella, cutting the snakes head off, even though it might have swallowed gold. (see like the snake is like a good player system but it can have some bad players but the gold is the good players so if we cut it off we might miss out on good players but the bad will definately be gone

Edited December 30, 200915 yr by Sapper28

If no ping kick there is a small chance i could place form South America, but the lag would make it pointless.

 

I've never had issues with people with high pings and have found them easier to kill and I've never seen one have a good score. I find it harder to hit someone that has a low ping....kick them i say

 

As for overseas people wasting assets and not playing properly, what happen to the tightening of server rules?? Or have the in game admins move on to other games until 0.9? Sort of defeats the purpose of them being in game admins if they no longer play the game. Seems like in game admin need to be chosen on dedication to the game as well as a resilient unbias problem solver.

 

What has happened to the local community? I think a better solution can be found to populate the servers than scabbing for internationals.

Edited December 30, 200915 yr by tomg101