So I quit my previous job just before I went to Kapooka for a month. It was conflicting with the Reserves, plus I just wanted to move on.

 

Anywho, I've been applying for jobs via SEEK etc. I've gotten several callbacks - all of whom ran for the hills as soon as i mentioned anything to do with Tuesday night parades.

 

Is that even legal? To discriminate against ADF members based on their commitments one night a week?

 

Now before the SMB owners out there start sooking at me, I know, I know. I'm a business owner as well. I understand that you can't have staff not available at random times during the week. I'm just curious to see what guys like Fallen would make of the situation.

I would say no its not legal, however proving thats why they aren't hiring you would be difficult. I know a bloke at my current job was out of work for a while, went to the local Centrelink job board. Saw nothing on there that was suitable for him, he had a quick look at the 'other' board and noticed a number of jobs there were unfilled after months n months of being on the board, went to grab one and was told that he couldn't take that job (due to his skin being too light) etc etc etc. Now nothing on the job card mentioned any previsos like that but still he wasn't allowed to apply for it.

 

From my own experience, when i was investigating the Reserves, I spoke with out HR dept (both old jobs) and was pretty much told that while 'yes' I could apply for reserves etc the way they structured their ADF leave was done in such a way that you had to be in it already unless you took leave without pay for training etc, also they were 'unsympathetic' to anyone who was applying and wanting to go to initial training.

No it's not kosher

 

 

"In 2001, the Australian Government introduced legislation to protect Defence Reservists in their civilian employment and education. The Defence Reserve Service (Protection) Act 2001 makes it an offence for an employer to discriminate against, disadvantage or dismiss an employee or prospective employee for rendering Defence service"

 

http://www.defencereserves.com/cms_resources/documents/Brochures/DRS_EmpHandbook_2008.pdf

 

But also keep in mind:

 

 

Would you want to work for somebody who isn't supportive of your personal development.

 

imo find an employer who isn't going to treat you like a lump of meat.

 

Sorry, I'm not trying to be an employer basher... but there are plenty of reasons why an employer would want to have one of their staff members serve in the Army Reserve.... and TBH every full time employee is entitled to use their annual leave however they like...

Edited August 17, 200915 yr by Sapper28

Is that even legal?

 

http://www.defencereserves.com/aspx/your_obligations.aspx

When protection provisions are in force, the employer, in summary, is required to:

not hinder, in any way, a member from carrying out Defence Service or becoming a member of the Reserve;

re-employ the member after Defence Service;

not compel members to use annual leave/long service leave for Defence Service; and

treat the employee as on leave without pay during call-out and protected voluntary Continuous Full Time Service.

 

The Protection Act does not oblige an employer of a member who is, or has been, absent on Defence Service to do any of the following in respect of the period of service:

 

pay the member's remuneration in respect of the civilian employment;

grant the member's entitlements in respect of the civilian employment;

meet the employer's obligations under worker's compensation law to pay premiums, contributions or similar payments in relation to the member; and

meet the employer's obligations under the Superannuation guarantee (Administration) Act 1992 in relation to the member.

 

Basically: As a bare minimum, they HAVE TO give you leave without pay and they CANNOT fire you, or decrease your shifts, or deny you training, or give you a hard time, from your job.

 

They don't have to give you paid leave, but some people are lucky and work for employers who recognise National Service as being "on the job" in addition to being paid by the Army.

 

Any employer who denies a Reservist a job is making an absolute ass hat of themselves. They are denying themselves of additional income while the Reservist is on leave (Yes, that's right, your employer is paid by the government while you're away, in addition to the government paying you), they're discriminating against someone who has made an oath to put their life on the line to ensure that businesses security in Australia is defended in the event of an invasion and they're throwing away some fantastic tax-payer funded training.

 

Ask any Reserve member what their room's best time to SSS, brush their teeth and make their bed in the morning was and then ask them how they achieved it - teamwork, discipline, a sense or urgency and the basics of getting the motivation to get things done are all basic skills that you're taught at Kapooka.

 

My advice is to find a government agency and get a job with them. If you're willing to move, your oppertunities will increase. If you can't or don't want to work as a Pube, just don't mention your weekly/monthly/yearly commitments unless you're directly asked about them. That is, unless you're going to be doing shift work and you're potentially going to be rostered for a Tuesday night. Otherwise, your employer doesn't need to know.

Edited August 17, 200915 yr by efgh146

Casual FTW!!! You decide when you're available, not the business

 

I know it's unfeasible with a family etc but yeah, having an employer 'own' me for 40+ hours a week is going to feel really yucky I reckon. Entrepreneurs ftw?

Entrepreneurs ftw?

 

Indeed. Unfortunately, my entreprenuership is why I need a job - Its quiet time before Chrissy.

my employer doesnt own me, neva! thats why i can post here duh

 

*fired*

FFS Base just go ARA already.

 

My work supports ARES so you get Defence leave on top of your normal annual leave per year, and if need be you can take leave without pay and still have a job when u get back even if your on deployment for a long time like in the solomons or timor, but majority of the leave is training based. Below is taken from our HR department documents on our intranet.

 

Defence Force Leave

 

If you’re a defence reservist, you’re entitled to attend compulsory service training.

 

Eligibility and entitlement

The company recognises the importance of the Reserve Forces and the opportunities this service offers for personal development. Accordingly, the company supports your decision to enlist in the reserves. You are entitled to 10 days paid leave once every calendar year for defence training if you are a member of a voluntary defence force and the leave is a compulsory part of your service. If you wish to take more than 10 days’ leave to attend military

camps you must apply for this leave as annual leave.

 

Application and Approval

You must complete a Leave application form for your manager’s approval. A letter from your commanding officer requesting your attendance for military training is required before leave can be approved.

 

Payment

The company continues to pay you your current salary when you take defence force leave. Your current salary is the pay you would ordinarily receive less overtime and shift penalties. If you ordinarily receive a bonus for the work you perform, you should discuss with your manager or HR representative what bonus you will be paid while you are on defence force

leave. You are required to repay to the company the amount paid to you by the defence force for attending training. You can retain any amount paid by the defence force, which is more than your current salary.

Used to be illegal now its legal .

However there is a sceme to sweeten the deal for employers. Simply put ADF will pay your employer (including self employed) some money while your away (2 week? camps etc)to cover there staffing costs to replace you. Talk to your unit recruiting office or someone at Coy 2IC level or above and they should be well versed in the ins and outs of it. Your Pl staff may know but often arnt shmick with the details.

Just ask .

Reserves is also a good place to get civilian work through, again just ask someone may know someone who want someone with your skills..

 

:hi:

do a trade.

... Edit in a sec

Edited August 17, 200915 yr by efgh146

Ya thats BS from those employers.

I own a small business (motel) in west country NSW and i employ - mentally disabled, previous injury, centrelink programs, and a couple of regular people. I would have no problem employing anyone in reserves as they show the basic attitude and drive i am looking for in my employees.

Good luck with your job prospecting and dont think another thought about companies like those you mentioned....there loss.

So I quit my previous job just before I went to Kapooka for a month. It was conflicting with the Reserves, plus I just wanted to move on.

 

Anywho, I've been applying for jobs via SEEK etc. I've gotten several callbacks - all of whom ran for the hills as soon as i mentioned anything to do with Tuesday night parades.

 

Is that even legal? To discriminate against ADF members based on their commitments one night a week?

 

 

 

I'm not sure about Australia but I do know that this is illegal in Canada. If I was you I'd keep your trap shut about it period. When you do get a job then you mention it and if they decide to fire you you have a solid case.

 

Again in Canada (I would assume the same rules are in Oz) you are not even allowed to let someone go when they go on active service or away for summer training. It's like getting knocked up for a woman, just try and sack someone on maternity leave and watch the court case rapidly ensue.

 

 

EDIT///

 

Read what others posted above, how the hell did it take until 2001 to make it law??

 

 

 

Also, is it true that the government took away the 20 year pension?

Edited August 17, 200915 yr by Snazzy

Mmm.

 

Looking for a job sucks balls. Anyone looking for full time staff in Brisbane? Have car, will travel.

 

Also have kneepads, if that helps

If you wish to take more than 10 days’ leave to attend military camps you must apply for this leave as annual leave

 

Sm00v, might want to tell your HR Department to double check the Defence Protection Act From the Reserve website:

When protection provisions are in force, the employer, in summary, is required to:

... not compel members to use annual leave/long service leave for Defence Service; and ...

 

FYI, Protection Provisions are in force when you are required to attend mandatory training, which includes IET's. Also,

 

You are required to repay to the company the amount paid to you by the defence force for attending training. You can retain any amount paid by the defence force, which is more than your current salary.

 

Um ... HELL NO! So horribly, horribly, horribly wrong! The Government PAYS THEM, and they also want the money that the Government PAYS YOU?! Talk about double dipping ...

 

Your HR department has it WAY wrong, Sm00v. They should really fix that stuff before they land themselves in a lot of bother with the Defence Protection Act

Edited August 18, 200915 yr by efgh146

Um ... HELL NO! So horribly, horribly, horribly wrong! The Government PAYS THEM, and they also want the money that the Government PAYS YOU?! Talk about double dipping ...

 

Your HR department has it WAY wrong, Sm00v. They should really fix that stuff before they land themselves in a lot of bother with the Defence Protection Act

 

 

Interesting...this is how my HR word theirs:

 

 

The employee is entitled to receive pay from IBM, equivalent to the difference between their normal IBM salary, and the amount of earnings received from Defence Forces while attending military training.

 

At the conclusion of the Military 'training' leave you should forward to the Manager, Payroll Services (FC21), a copy of your ADF Reserve payslip(s) and advise your preferred option for the return of earnings to IBM.

 

All very confusing... cos is the onus on the employee to work out the tax they didn't pay, including the Medicare surcharge??????

 

 

 

 

They do give a maximum of three weeks service leave, each year, to attend training though.

Edited August 18, 200915 yr by Sapper28

Hmm. That is interesting.

 

But thats pretty much straight out of the Defence Act, its what you get told at recruiting. Good on IBM

All Reservists should go through http://www.defencereserves.com/aspx/home.aspx and become really familiar with the ins and outs of the site. There's some good stuff to feed your employer and to help out your family.

 

The employee is entitled to receive pay from IBM, equivalent to the difference between their normal IBM salary, and the amount of earnings received from Defence Forces while attending military training.

 

At the conclusion of the Military 'training' leave you should forward to the Manager, Payroll Services (FC21), a copy of your ADF Reserve payslip(s) and advise your preferred option for the return of earnings to IBM.

 

If they aren't claiming the money from the Government (Employer Support Payments), that seems fair enough to me. They aren't actually taking any money off of you, they're just paying you the difference between what you were paid and what you'd normally earn. They aren't forcing you to take annual leave, and it's effectively better than taking it all as leave without pay. All in all, not too bad, but even for the private sector that's pretty poor form in my opinion. Especially for a company which rakes in so much dough.

 

If they are, however, receiving Employer Support Payments, then that seems very dodgy to me. In addition to not paying you (they save $$$, but you aren't there working, therefor they're breaking even at this point), they're also receiving funds from the government, therefor they're at a financial advantage for letting you volunteer your time to serve the Nation in harsh, substandard and often gruelling conditions. At most, they should break even - they should never profit from your sacrifice.

 

In my old job, which was in the Private Sector, I got 2 weeks paid Defence Leave in addition to other leave. Unfortunately for them, after I had negotiated this for the rest of the company on behalf of fellow Reservists, I got another job

 

Now, I get 8 weeks paid Defence Leave over a 2 year period, accrued at 4 weeks a year, in addition to my annual and sick leave.

 

Some good schemes you can point out to your bosses:

http://www.defencereserves.com/cms_resources/documents/Brochures/DRS_POWA_broch07.pdf

And this:

http://www.defencereserves.com/aspx/exec_overview.aspx

 

Get your boss on side, acknowledging that it really is a good thing not just for you personally, but for his team, the company and for the nation and you'll find that most of them fall into line. The majority of businesses who don't support the Reserves soon come around once they see the benefits.

 

All very confusing... cos is the onus on the employee to work out the tax they didn't pay, including the Medicare surcharge??????

 

The way your finance/pay/tax department would work it out would be:

Normal pay (no tax) - Defence pay (no tax) = Amount-to-be-paid (no tax)

 

And then just work out the tax to be paid on the Amount-to-be-paid, so the onus would be on the Employer.

 

And for some enjoyable reading, here's what the Defence Support Council recommends for Employers:

Employers are encouraged to develop policies that provide clear support for their employees to undertake Reserve service. Supportive employers are encouraged to:

• have a clear HR policy that encourages and supports employee participation in the Defence Force Reserves and includes provision for Defence Leave, acknowledging that Reserve training enhances job performance as well as contributing to national security;

• show their commitment by signing statements of support for the Defence Force Reserves, displaying these publicly and incorporating them within their organisational HR manuals. Statements of support are vailable through the Defence Reserves Support Council. An example is attached.

• ensure that every level of management in the organisation is aware of this supportive policy, including the reasons for support and the means to be adopted for achievement.

• recognise the accomplishments of Reserve service by employees in organisational newsletters and other publications.

• support Reservists by granting, as a minimum, two weeks (10 working days or 14 calendar days) Defence Leave each year for Reserve service, in addition to the employee's annual leave. Such Defence Leave could be either paid leave, unpaid leave or leave with the employer paying the difference between the Reserve pay and their employee's salary (top-up or make-up pay).

• from time to time, provide additional Defence Leave, on receipt of a special request from the Defence Force, for attendance at a school, class or course of instruction conducted for the training of members of the Defence Force or for deployment on a Defence Force operation or exercise. Generally after the first two weeks' Reserve service, employers are eligible for Employer Support Payments covering any such additional period of absence.

• support Reservists during their first year of Reserve service to facilitate completion of recruit or initial employment training, whether by continuous attendance or by attendance at modules, in order to permit Reservists to achieve the necessary competency skills and qualifications.

• ensure that any absence on Reserve service does not break an Employee's continuity of service for the purposes of seniority and employment.

• preserve access to other entitlements during absences on Reserve service, including counting periods of up to six weeks' leave without pay as service for accrual of annual leave and long service leave entitlements.

• commit, other things being equal, to the provision of job opportunities and benefits for Reservist employees, consistent with those for other employees.

• review the Reservist's salary or conditions along with other employees if a periodic review of salary or conditions of employment is undertaken whilst the Reservist is absent on Defence service. If a new workforce agreement is signed during the Reservist's absence on Defence service, then the Reservist should be considered as an employee of the employer for the purposes of that agreement.

• actively address the Reservist's re-integration into the workforce, without detriment, after compulsory deployment or absence on military duties including training.

 

Where employers currently provide levels of support that exceed those detailed in this guidance, as many already do, they are strongly encouraged to maintain their present levels of support into the future.

Edited August 18, 200915 yr by efgh146