Hi Guys,

 

Well, my motherboard and/or processor is dead and it was time to upgrade anyway since I was on an older Athlon/AGP platform . I'm looking at buying a good all-rounder that works well for BF2 and whatever comes next but I don't want to spend too much and overclocking isn't needed.

 

Quiet tower case - Soprano?

Core Duo E6750

2x 1GB sticks generic DDR800

Gigabyte P35 DQ6 motherboard

8800GT 256MB or ATi 3850 256MB

 

Questions for those who know:

 

1) Is the P35 chipset a good one for this application?

2) Is the on-board sound any good on the Gigabytes? I read somewhere that on board sound is now heaps better than it used to be.

3) There is a substantial price difference between the 8800GT and the 3850 (about 40% more for the GT) but Tomshardware reckon they perform at a similar level. Anyone have an opinion about the 3850? I've always been an Nvidia man myself but...

 

Thanks

 

Bammo

I have a gigabyte ds3p and on board sound I find is fine.. My music works, I hear gun shots in the woods, And I can use my mic.. lol Works for me, didnt wanna waste money on a sound card.

Intel E8400 - 3ghz with 2mb more cache (6mb total), and also dual core. Can be had for $250, they went on sale yesterday (same price as the E6750, more performance and runs cooler due to being 45nm)

 

Onboard is okay, but its nothing special though mine has served me pretty well...surprisingly good EAX support. If you have an extra $120-140 then I would get a creative x-fi. They are the best for gaming, hands down due to supporting later versions of EAX.

 

I have a P35-DS3P, its rock solid and has a crap load of features for around $150. Cheap and very good.

 

Video card I would go the 8800GT 512mb and not the 256mb, if you ever plan to get a bigger monitor you wont need a new video card. I've not really read too much into ATi as like you I've been a fan of nvidias offerings.

first off what do you want / dont want to spend. im in the same boat - im about to upgrade and have been looking at option till my eyes bleed.

 

soprano case is excellent - i have one at the moment and it is good at chat it does for its price. There are better ones out there that provide more airflow but typically start at around the $200 mark. The air flow on the Soprano is very good so will do the job

 

CPUs are about to change dramatically - new ones are comming out but they will have a premium price attached - but it might make the older ones (of which the E6750 is one) a little cheaper

 

ram and mother board are fine for a budget system. If you want a computer to last a few years then you have to buy expensive stuff.

 

if you can afford it get an 8800gt 512mb grapgics card. These are out performing the 8800gts cards and represent the best "bang" for buck at the moment.

 

cant tell you about onboard sound - i bought an x-fi sound card and would never consider going back to onboard sound - thought is was good untill i heard it the way it was meant to be.

 

CPUs are about to change dramatically - new ones are comming out but they will have a premium price attached - but it might make the older ones (of which the E6750 is one) a little cheaper

 

Intel have done the opposite!

 

Cheaper/Boarding on the same price, and faster.

 

E8400 - 3.0ghz dual core, 6mb cache - $239

E6750 - 2.66ghz dual core, 4mb cache - $229

 

Going by staticice prices for the last few days anyway.

 

The new quads will be the same sort of deal, though they aren't currently available and have only been said to be Q1 2008, which could be another 2 months.

this is what im looking at getting

Intel Core 2 Duo 3.00GHz CPU (E6850)

Socket 775, 1333MHz FSB, 4Mb L2 Cache, Retail Boxed with Cooler

$408

Gigabyte GA-X38T-DQ6 Motherboard

Intel X38 Chipset, ATX, 2x PCI-E 2.0 Slots, 2x PCI Slots, 2x PCI-E x1 Slot, 4x DDR3 Slots

$420

2048Mb Corsair XMS3 TWIN3X2048-1333C9DHX DDR3-1333 Memory Kit

(2x 1024Mb Dual Channel Memory Kit), 9-9-9-27, Silver Heat Spreader with DHX Technology

$584

Cooler Master Stacker 831 Mid ATX Aluminium Tower Case, No PSU, Black

2x Front USB, Front Audio, Front 1394 Firewire

$395

 

ive already got a 8800 gts

but im wondering how much watts i need to run it

rankman get the E8400. It's cheaper than the E6850, and faster.

 

DDR is way too over priced for the little performance you get from it too, so might aswell stick with the DDR2.

 

X38 doesn't offer any more performance than the P35 series motherboards either, and you pay twice the price.

 

 

You could save yourself like $600 just with the above.

 

You can run it easily with a HX620 by Corsair, it more tha adequately runs my E6750 with an 8800GTS. Hell even a 520 would.

rankman get the E8400. It's cheaper than the E6850, and faster.

 

DDR is way too over priced for the little performance you get from it too, so might aswell stick with the DDR2.

 

X38 doesn't offer any more performance than the P35 series motherboards either, and you pay twice the price.

 

 

You could save yourself like $600 just with the above.

 

You can run it easily with a HX620 by Corsair, it more tha adequately runs my E6750 with an 8800GTS. Hell even a 520 would.

 

All extremely good advice... I'd say get the HX520 if you have <=3 HDD and the HX620 if you have >=4 HDD because the HX620 comes with more connectors

 

Or if you're interested in Quad core, pick up a E2160 (~$90) and wait till the 45nm Quads are released in the next quarter.

I can't find a WA dealer who has the E8400's in stock yet I'll call http://www.itestate.com.au in the morning and see if they can express post one over, thanks for that tip!

 

Total budget is around the $800 mark.

 

WRT video cards, its hard to know. You can pick up a no-name 3850 with 256MB for $220 and that seems like a lot of bang for your buck. $275 gets you the 512MB version. To put it in perspective, I currently have a 7600GT with 512MB and am very happy with the performance, albeit it is AGP. The cheapest 8800GT 512 is around $375.

 

The Soprano cases look good but my #1 bugbear is noise - so I am looking at the Antec 182b as it seems to have a good rep. I have an older Thermaltake Purepower 420 that I can shoehorn into the Antec and upgrade later on if I need to.

 

Is it worth spending extra $$$ on the ram now if I want to overclock a *little* bit? I was going to just get 2 x 1GB generic sticks for $25 each. Is it worth going to 3GB or 4GB if I am on XP?

 

So many questions...arrrgggghhhh!

Bammo - let me know if ITEstate won't express post. I live close by and would be happy to pickup and send via express post.

 

Have always had problems overclocking the generic memory sticks - explains why they are so cheap.

I can't find a WA dealer who has the E8400's in stock yet I'll call www.itestate.com.au in the morning and see if they can express post one over, thanks for that tip!

 

I've always wondered about them... I see a few posts about how "eddie" can be a tool... but their prices are awesome

 

Total budget is around the $800 mark.

 

WRT video cards, its hard to know. You can pick up a no-name 3850 with 256MB for $220 and that seems like a lot of bang for your buck. $275 gets you the 512MB version. To put it in perspective, I currently have a 7600GT with 512MB and am very happy with the performance, albeit it is AGP. The cheapest 8800GT 512 is around $375.

 

Resolution mainly is the determinant whether you should stretch for 512MB and above... below 1680x1050, 256MB should suffice, but once you hit 1.5million pixels to be rendered simultaneously [technically not simultaneously... per refresh], I suggest looking at 512MB of VRAM.

 

The Soprano cases look good but my #1 bugbear is noise - so I am looking at the Antec 182b as it seems to have a good rep. I have an older Thermaltake Purepower 420 that I can shoehorn into the Antec and upgrade later on if I need to.

 

If noise is an issue, I'd read some reviews about the 3850s because historically ATI/AMD have made some rather loud video cards (2900 series anyone ). Case fans generally can be easily modified or changed to have low noise, a couple of 120mm @ <1000rpm is basically silent. Another thing I do want to note... do not skimp on the PSU, the last thing you want is your PSU 12V rail overloading and dying [or just general wear and tear] thus taking out your motherboard or your VGA as well. So many problems on whirlpool come down to a PSU issue. A good PSU is well worth the money.

 

Is it worth spending extra $$$ on the ram now if I want to overclock a *little* bit? I was going to just get 2 x 1GB generic sticks for $25 each. Is it worth going to 3GB or 4GB if I am on XP?

 

All depends on the setup man... It also depends on what your definition of a little bit is... Q6600 that Jerrif just got has a 9x multiplier with a stock FSB of 266mhz. That means you can push it all the way up to 3GHZ from 2.4GHZ without overclocking the ram at all. An E4400 has a multiplier of 10x, which means you can take kingston 667mhz memory and clock that sucker up to 3.3ghz.

 

Plan ahead, but 667mhz or 800mhz are dirt cheap now anyway... I'd definitely go for the 4GB Can be had for less than $120 in matched sticks (667 mhz).

 

So many questions...arrrgggghhhh!

 

Arrrrrgggghhhh so many questions to answer :wacko:

Yeah ITestate have good prices but their staff are complete ********s.

 

Their postage to WA is horrendous too.

Just about to upgrade to a DDR2/Core2Duo system from an AGP system as well. Following your progress with interest Bammo...

 

EDIT: One issue I have done some searching on is the soundcard.

 

I've been using onboard sound for 5 years (since my Live! OEM burnt out) and I've resolved to get an X-Fi based card.

 

Now while I can see the point of a dedicated soundcard I cannot see how the fatal1ty cards with the onboard X-Ram will do anything. Someone can convince me otherwise.

 

But that leaves which budget X-Fi to get. And I've learned that perhaps the best deal is one of the discontinued X-Fi ExtremeMusic cards. This has the better quality components (still no Xram), can be upgraded to use the I/O front bay (unlike the vanilla gamer) and can be found cheaper on the net from some retailers.

Edited January 9, 200817 yr by bkt

rankman get the E8400. It's cheaper than the E6850, and faster.

 

DDR is way too over priced for the little performance you get from it too, so might aswell stick with the DDR2.

 

X38 doesn't offer any more performance than the P35 series motherboards either, and you pay twice the price.

 

 

You could save yourself like $600 just with the above.

 

You can run it easily with a HX620 by Corsair, it more tha adequately runs my E6750 with an 8800GTS. Hell even a 520 would.

 

E68850 i cant find in town so it would be the same price due to shiping

 

the differnce between x38 and p35 is the :2 x PCI Express x16 slots supporting ATI CrossFire™ technology

 

i have no idea about DDR

 

and ive got a 620watt psu

 

edit:i have found that DDR3 is trying to be much faster

http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2989&p=2

Edited January 9, 200817 yr by Super64

P35-DS3P has cross fire on it, I know because mine has it.

 

X38 only offers PCI-E 2.0 over 1.0 on the P35 series motherboards, 1.0 is a tiny bit slower than 2.0...we're talking 1-2fps with the current series of cards.

 

Also you have an 8800GTS, which doesn't work with Crossfire so that is pointless for you anyway unless you plan to upgrade to ATi in the near future.

 

E8400 will be arriving in NZ in the next week or so I would imagine, it is seriously worth waiting for.

 

DDR3, if you have the money go for it I guess.

Davee,

 

I'm looking at the slightly cheaper P35-DS3R which is strictly a single GPU only, all I really need. All the reviews of DDR3 I have seen so far have warned off it as the speed increase Vs price is miniscule. Given I am looking for bang for buck it would seem to be pointless. I gather the same speed DDR3 is actually slower than the same speed DDR2 so you need to buy really really fast DDR3 to see any improvement.

 

My preference in all of this is to buy locally, Austin Computers here in WA have always looked after me brilliantly with after sales service so I would prefer to stick with them, although the prices from PLE are about 5% less and the prices from Foxcomp are another 5% again so I might pick and choose.

 

Sadly, no one in Perth has even heard of the E8400 yet. I might buy a E2160 and use that for a few months and then upgrade to a Quad Core, hey?

what are you doing with your old video card.....?,(I'm slumming it with an old 6900 XT... still...)

If I can upgrade that ,I can put the old one in the kids computer...

 

How much if you aren't going to need it...?

I'm looking at the slightly cheaper P35-DS3R which is strictly a single GPU only, all I really need. All the reviews of DDR3 I have seen so far have warned off it as the speed increase Vs price is miniscule. Given I am looking for bang for buck it would seem to be pointless. I gather the same speed DDR3 is actually slower than the same speed DDR2 so you need to buy really really fast DDR3 to see any improvement.

 

If you dont need RAID then grab the P35-DS3 . Same as the R but with limited RAID support. DDR3 now is pointless. Grab some nice cheap DDR2800 or 1066. If you cant find a 8400 locally order one online its well worth it.

Sorry Bammo, that post was in reference to rankman!

 

As for the E8400, give it a week and it should be there. Or just get it sent over from NSW.

 

Alternatively: These guys have them in WA, you can probably get them to knock $20 off the price. Not sure how close they are to you though.

 

With the ram, budget DDR2 800 is more than adequate unless you plan to overclock. You can get the stuff for like $30 a stick in some places. 2GB for $60-70 is a complete bargain.

First AMD are releasing their new R500 mark II this month.

Second. Nvidia are launching the 9800 GX2 1GB ram on the 18th

Thirdly. New cores are also coming out this month.

And along with that a whole bunch of other crap.

Yet, no one mentioned it. If your desperate least you could do is wait a month for this stuff to come out or alternatively, get an 8800GTS then shove in two of the new ATI cards in say 3 months time.

So yeah the X38 chip thingy sucks along with DDR3, if you do go with it because of the new PCIe, then find a mobo that also supports DDR2 and stick with that.

Darth mentioned the CPU's coming out - but that has not been even schedualed for a date yet (Q1 2008 could be March 30 for all we know!). Considering he has a budget of around $800, I don't think he can just get a GTS now and then 2 more video cards in a few months or any of the newer technology.

 

Davee,

 

I'm looking at the slightly cheaper P35-DS3R which is strictly a single GPU only, all I really need. All the reviews of DDR3 I have seen so far have warned off it as the speed increase Vs price is miniscule. Given I am looking for bang for buck it would seem to be pointless. I gather the same speed DDR3 is actually slower than the same speed DDR2 so you need to buy really really fast DDR3 to see any improvement.

 

Have you considered the P35-DS3L then? I'm not sure what the difference between the R & L versions are... but the price was significant enough for Jerrif to go with the L. No problems so far... his Q6600 is @ 3.0ghz on stock voltage right now, loading @ 56-61 degrees on all cores. And yes... DDR3 = pointless right now... only when we see comparative prices from DDR3 @ 2-4GB would I consider it.

 

My preference in all of this is to buy locally, Austin Computers here in WA have always looked after me brilliantly with after sales service so I would prefer to stick with them, although the prices from PLE are about 5% less and the prices from Foxcomp are another 5% again so I might pick and choose.

 

Austin, Netplus & PLE are all fine candidates, but I often wish PLE had an OP outlet so I could just skip between the three to buy the cheapest from each... right now a drive to Bentley is less than appealing :wacko:

 

Sadly, no one in Perth has even heard of the E8400 yet. I might buy a E2160 and use that for a few months and then upgrade to a Quad Core, hey?

 

Incorrect... Navada in Osbourne Park are selling them already, but they have no stock :

 

http://www.navada.com.au/SHOP/ListItems.dbm?subCatid=PENTIUM4&CatId=PROCESSORS

 

The E2160 is nothing to sneeze at, especially with a good HSF and if you specify you want an M0 stepping, you could easily see about 2.6-3.2 ghz on stock voltage (going by whirlpool averages).

 

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=873393#r15 (Thread)

 

http://processorfinder.intel.com/List.aspx?ProcFam=2841&sSpec=&OrdCode=

(Processor finder)

Ok - Here is what I have done:

 

Firstly, no one actually has stock of the E8400 - the guys selling it online will take your money and then call back with a "sorry, out of stock" call. Secondly, no one in Perth has the Gigabyte P35 motherboards in stock, I range PLE who had two in their Belmont store so I took the long drive over only to arrive as the last one was walking out the front door!

 

So here is what I did:

 

I bought the Antec Sonata Silent case for $165 - comes witha good enough 500W supply and is supposedly good and quiet for a mid range system. The extra size of the 182b is ideal for those who want to run lots of HDD's and dual vid cards but not really needed for me.

 

I bought an Asus P35 MoBo for about $150 - PK5R I think? Similar to Gigabyte but a bit cheaper and a few less features.

 

I bought a (gulp) E2160 slow as a wet week Core Duo for $90. I'll wait a couple of months and put a quad core in and can probably sell the 2160 for half what I paid.

 

I bought 2GB of Team extreme Ram for $99 - figured it was worth spending a little more on this item and this ram OC's well.

 

I bought a 8600GT-256MB for $170. Now I know that this is a relatively slow card but it is still heaps faster than my AGP 7600GT (768MB!) and I was actually kinda OK with the speed of that card. The new one has a 120mm fan and is almost silent so that helps with the noise too.

 

Total cost was around $700 but the GST is claimable taking it to $630. I reckon I can sell my Zalman cooler, AMD 3200+, 2GB DDR ram and the 7600 for a couple of hundred so the next cost will be just over $400.

 

In three months I'll go a quad core (one of the high end ones today) and will look at a new card if I need to.

 

Many thanks to the guy down at PLE in Belmont who took the time to analyse all the options and to provide some really helpful advice about where to save money. A change from the usual 'service" you get at PC stores nowadays.

 

Now - to the build!

what are you doing with your old video card.....?,(I'm slumming it with an old 6900 XT... still...)

If I can upgrade that ,I can put the old one in the kids computer...

 

How much if you aren't going to need it...?

 

OR how much for all then...?,pm me if you don't have a buyer....

8600GT isn't that bad a card. I think I have an 8600GS in my file box...still gets some playable frames with a 3800+x2