Last night Stomp-quasi was a bit unhappy with my squad.. Our tanker ended up getting a warning put against him (even tho at that time, the flag we were hitting was the one going to be capped anyway)

 

He was sitting 500m away from the USMC first base, and not in view of ANY of the spawn points or even the armour spawns. He was picking off anything on its way to the flag our team was moving onto (second last flag - which he was also closer to than the last flag).

 

As our team was just getting on the second last flag, i gave the order to my squad to suppress the last flag (you know.. team work and all - helping out our team by protecting them from enemy advances)

 

"There are several spawn points in each base making it impossible for one person to camp an entire base." - he wasnt even camping ONE of the spawn points

 

So really.. the tank was covering my infantrymen who were advancing toward the next flag..

 

its not like we were sitting there (like a different squad did earlier) and killing them as they spawned, or trying to cap a flag that was way out of order.

 

so.. whats the deal.. i know when you can not get out of your last base its because of the LACK of teamwork on your side.(even tho this enemy could.. on the OTHER flank we were not supressing)..

 

BTW the map was EJOD desert.. and we were mec and had pushed them back to the last flag.

 

I had heard from other admins (will remain nameless) that attacking the next flag (or preventing an enemy from taking a flag they need to take even tho you cant take it) is a perfectly legitimate tactic

The general guideline, is Do not attack main bases in which you cannot capture. This is shown in the server messages even. It is up to the admin at the time how they define this. If a warning happens, well you damn well make sure you obey that warning. If no warning happens, well stop the whinging and try to take him out.

I was there last night. In your favour I think you hit the last flag as the gas station was secured and being capped. Well done for quickly falling back when ppl raised the issue on global chat.

 

Whenever I'm SL in a situation like that, I will clearly delay the attack on the last cappable flag until it is *very* assured/clear that it is the last flag. It is likely that some members on the losing side will be a bit miffed at their team's lack of performance (read: lack of defence + squad cohesion) and it is best not to give the frustrated folks the excuse to say "not fair!!".

people get very annoyed when they get spawn camped, ie shot as they spawn. This raises the issue of when should we attack that flag and "should" we attack that flag yet.

 

This is more a recommendation and a request for players to play in a way that they would like if they were on the receiving end.

 

It was me that gave the warning - a little late as i that things on the go and when i checked the log chat and talking to someone in TS i say that people were getting upset. It was only a warning and as stated above, you pulled back and attacked when it was clear that that flag was the last to be capped.

 

There is no real way we can have a rule set in stone as we can not enforce it. We can only really rely on players and admins working together. This means that the admin needs to have as many details as possible and then make a decission.

 

This all changes in scrims as i feel under that sort of environment people can handle the attacks on flags that are not the current one.

I don't think it Spawn camping, I think attacking the enemy in transit is legit too. But this leaves me to believe the following.

 

I reckon its a game/map issue rather then human judgment. I don't think that the place were you get reinforcements (ie main base) Should be you starting point, or for that matter, a capable flag. The main Spawn area should be away from the flag preferable behind it and the last two flags should be some distance between each other, the main also should being in great cover (when an army is building a command post anywhere its obvious they'll choose a good spot to defend it). not in the middle of woop woop on level ground.

 

Some maps you'll probably never see Spawn Camping, while others it can be a regular occurrence. Maybe start a new thread on tweaking some maps to link to the PR forums for the map devs.

That's a damn good point porridge, no matter what any one says. Having the vehicle spawn away from a capable flag would help a great deal. Unless you have that, your always gonna have tanks smashing the hell out of every vehicle they see when it comes to the last flag. There is nothing worse than being reluctant to cap the next flag because you are afraid you'll offend someone.

 

I understand that you no-one likes being spawn camped. Also though, I'd hazard a guess that if all other flags are lost, you have no other spawn points away from your main (i.e. rally points and so on) and you can't organise yourself to counter-attack. Then you don't really deserve to win and you haven't done as well as you needed to up to that point.

 

Also, in theory pounding the hell out of an enemy position to suppress them is a very legitimate tactic if you want to win. The issue here though I think is not winning or loosing, it's keeping people on the server, especially late at night. If you want to have good games, with as many people as possible, try your hardest not to spawn camp.

I agree with all said (despite me getting a little pissy with the MEC tanks moving straight onto villiage on kashan prior to any of the bunkers being taken last night). Perhaps not against the rules but stretching the spirit of the game a little maybe....

 

I do accept it was due to lack of coordination and effective use of our assets at the start of the map which prevented us overcoming this though.

 

Cheers

 

Noddy

Edited September 10, 200717 yr by Sapper28

and not in view of ANY of the spawn points or even the armour spawns.

 

Not true, I watched the unoccupied armour blow up infront of me when it spawned at Main.

the maps need to be changed so that the main is uncappable and as far away as possible from the next flag. Also the first cappable flag should be very easily defended with some basic ground vehicles.

 

The other config should be for small infintry battles. 4 flags all capable mains being heavily defended from terrain and static objects. With the Spawn points 100m+ from the rear flags on either side.

 

Some maps follow this already but need some serious tweaking. I reckon the main flags on Ejod should be rotaited 90 degrees. So that both mains are in the hilly terrain surrounding the main city, While keeping the other flags the same. That way you couldn't tank snipe without exposing yourself to AT.

hmm.. maybe the tanks to the east were visible (i couldnt see them tho, and i was standing very near our tank).. but there was another mec tank on the highground behind us that may have also been doing some of the damage.

 

main point i meant was the apc spawns.. and the infantry spawns in the compound...

 

either way.. it was our next target, and we had troops taking the gas station.. so i owuld have thought that it was a legitimate target.

 

i do understand the concept of play like you expect to be played against.. BUT.. your team had many opportunities to bunker down in the gas and the one north of that, and failed to hold them.

 

if i was in your shoes i would have just bunkered down, got the commander to put some assets up in the base, and wait, HAT kit in hand, snipers on the roof, and engies with booby traps lying in wait at the entrances to the compound.

the maps need to be changed so that the main is uncappable and as far away as possible from the next flag..

 

That particular map needs a little tweaking. The best way to do this would be to offer an alternate spawn; You can spawn at the actual flag (APC's and light vehicle also spawn here) or away from the fight(about a km or so to the rear or flanks) with the armour and other light vehicles. This would give the armour a chance to operate and any shooting of that ocation would be, uindeniably, spawncamping because there wouldn't be a cappable flag there

they could have also fortified the compound with a mound + trench that protected the ground level, and made tanks come ontop of the mound, and be AT bait.

I put my hand up as being the tank driver, but I only shot into the last base when I got intel that our whole team had merged on the 2nd last flag and were capping it, so being the first time in the tank I got excited and started shooting at anything that moved, (i did not shoot teh tank that was just sitting there though), and at the SL's request i backed up and waited till the last flag had a "A" marker.... but at no time did I spawn camp anyone they were all running around, and being a nub, I wanted to make sure it was the enemy I was shooting at - everyone looks the same

TBH i think ppl were complaining abt everything that round (couldnt make squads, the weather, why there team was getting pwned).

Edited September 10, 200717 yr by Smoke

Yeah spawn camping can get a bit grey sometimes. Its good to hash things out in the forums though....

 

When you're team is looking like it will finish the map off, its up to the SL to sum up the situation, and to time his assault properly. Until the "A" marker is up, There should be no shooting in the uncap, (also long range incoming rounds from tanks and marksmen). But you can manouvre your squad into position for sure, and when the "A" appears, Its a free for all..

 

As i've been on the recieving end of "spawn in -death" enough times I hate the whole concept of shooting the instant spawners....give em a few secs to run.

 

If a whole squad is working on the same page, then things go alright.

 

0.6 has seen a large shift in gameplay and I have noticed that some times teams just get on a roll, and win round after round and peoples cranky meter tends to rise. I've been there.

I was playing as US on this game as well. Frankly this is retarded, it is just another case of the loosing team having a whinge because they got pushed all the way back to their last point and hence got killed while spawning at it. If a guy with an assault rife was at the main sitting on a building killing people as they spawn that would be spawn camping. And this was not it.

 

It is completely unreasonable to expect the attacking team to only attack the main when the second last flag is fully up and secure. Flags are normally contested in pairs ie. defend one and attack one. You can't expect the whole attacking army to pack up and leave your base just because you neutralized the second last flag either. Normally they will just send one squad back to deal with it while keeping the rest at your main.

 

Also when you spawn at your main and get killed by some random infantryman running around, before you cry wolf and start bitching about spawn campers, please consider that they may be there LEGITIMATELY SABOTAGING YOUR BASE and you just got in their way.

 

Sabotage operators finally have the right to defend themselves behind enemy lines again (yes the rules have changed) and I don't appriciate being called a spawn camper for blowing up some of your assets and killing anyone who tries to stop me.

Remember this big discussion?

 

http://www.bigdgaming.net/showthread.php?t=1977&highlight=spawncamping

 

It got a bit messy in parts, but some kind of answer was found, and they where then incorporated into this:

 

http://www.bigdgaming.net/rules/index.html

 

So as long as these arent broken, then game on. Sometimes it just sucks to lose...

Sabotage operators finally have the right to defend themselves behind enemy lines again (yes the rules have changed) and I don't appriciate being called a spawn camper for blowing up some of your assets and killing anyone who tries to stop me.

 

Thank the good lord that was one of the most idiotic rules I have ever seen on any server anywhere.

 

I pretty much agree with Wolfs entire post and in fact the last time Charger and I played together we had steamrolled the oposition with this tactic. We had seperated the squad and where grabbing flags two at a time.

 

Sounds like the Yanks got spanked and are just having a whinge as is typical.

 

Too bad I missed it, sounds like it was a good scrap.

+1 to wolf. He knows what's what.

 

And now, the undeniable definitions:

 

============================================

 

Rape:

1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
   
2. An act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.

 

Base:

1. A fortified or more or less protected area or place from which the operations of an army or an air force proceed.
   
2. A supply installation for a large military force.

 

Base Rape:

1. The act of raping your opponents base.
   
2. In terms of PR
   1. 
      
   2. Attacking your opponents base with the intention to cause large scale destruction.
      
   3. The relentless slaughter of any and all opposing players in the vicinity of the main base for an extended period of time

 

Spawn:

1. To produce or deposit
   
2. To give rise to; engender: tyranny that spawned revolt.
   
3. To cause to spawn; bring forth; produce: a family that had spawned a monster.
   
4. In game terms

    

   Camp:

   1. To establish or pitch a camp: The army camped in the valley.
      
   2. To settle down securely and comfortably; become ensconced: The kids camped on our porch until the rain stopped.
      
   3. To take up a position stubbornly: They camped in front of the president's office.

    

   Spawn Camp:

   1. The act of camping in range of a set spawnpoint with intent to kill players as they are given pseudo-physical existence in the digital world.

The act of having your avatar, a pseudo-physical extension of you command and will, created in the digital medium.

You can't expect the whole attacking army to pack up and leave your base just because you neutralized the second last flag either.

 

Actually - did you see this happen in that round when US got Gas stn back just before the server restart? I was p*ssing myself laughing as a large portion of the MEC side siddently turned focus from the US main (tentatively being attacked at this point) back to the gas station. It was great, I pity the squad on the flag that got mashed.

Edited September 10, 200717 yr by McCloud

Yeah that was kinda weird, I more meant in the fact that as soon as the second last flag goes neutral the defending team usually starts spamming "get out of our base we are uncappable" "you are breaking the rules" "blah blah etc etc"

 

Nice post Lucid.

 

Though you missed:

 

Spawn raping: The act of camping in range of a set spawnpoint with intent to force another player to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse as they are given pseudo-physical existence in the digital world.

 

What would we do without online gaming?

If the flag is capable and you're being killed - tough luck, shouldn't have let them get that far.

 

If you can't cap the flag (and its a main base - such as Ejod) and there is a whole squad there attacking people - expect a kick or ban depending on how many times you have been warned.

 

Very simple.

i think you can cap both last flags on ejod?

You can cap every flag on Ejod. Thats why I used it as an example

sabotage...

i know it poos people but... sabotage has to be legit in a reality mod...

and if in the course of one's duties a target of opportunity arises - blow their heads off... but don't camp... sometimes the base is the ideal spot to plant c4 or mines on vehicles/aircraft... and I cop it back often enough that reminds me everyone should check their vehicle before driving off...

Re; Lucid's post

 

That was the beginning of Operation Harden The **** Up. Brace yourself for a whirlwind of indifference