This has been a hot topic for a while now, and while we as admins have discussed it a lot, I think it is only fair to involve the community in this process.

 

So answer the poll, discuss away in this thread and we will collate the data and finalize the rule at the next squad admin meeting.

 

Realistically, there are 3 options that I'm aware of:

1. Don't allow any flags that are directly linked to main to be rushed, as these are considered first flags
   
2. allow one to be rushed, but not both.
   
3. Get rid of the rule all together and just prepare for whatever comes.
   

If you have another idea then by all means put it forward, as well as please justify your decision and list the merits of the rule.

 

Keep it civilized guys

I'm loving that option 3 - 'Get rid of the rule all together' is winning by far. This rule has always been retarded. BigD is the only server I know of in all of Squad that has this rule.

There is no rules in war lol..

My vote goes for number three, since I feel the rule limits the range of experience you can get out of a squad map. Removing it will help to stop things getting too predictable. Moreover, enforcing the rule has been pretty difficult and relies on everyone having the same understanding of what the rule actually prevents you from doing. That being said, this rule obviously caters more to the general public/non-clan members and new players as a sort of learning curve for dealing with squad tactics on our servers. I'm not sure if this group can be adequately represented by a poll here, so I guess just keep in mind what the repercussions of removing the rule would be with that less represented aspect of the community.

I like the rule, being over competitive in public servers and constantly steam rolling one side, kills a server almost as fast as Sumari loading as next map. If the community was willing to team balance more often and not make it a chore for admins to try get more experienced people to switch sides to the less experienced side, I'd be all for the remove the first flag rush rule.

honestly, i'm sitting at 50 keeping the rule and 50 getting rid of it.

 

When i first started playing squad i played in games where our first flag was rushed, and the enemy team had all the time in the world to cap the other flags, while our team bled out tickets trying to leave base/cap the first flag. Yes, you can argue that there are some ways they can tactically out smart the enemy and re-take the first point, if the squad leaders on the team are experienced otherwise it's GG at this point, either because we have lost so many tickets trying to take the first flag, or because new players to the game quit as they are instantly killed trying to cap the first objective especially on the smaller maps where the first cap is a stone throw away from the main spawn.

 

It's so easy, if you're rushing their first cap, to sneak in with a logi, supply the fob, and start super fobbing their first cap, leaving no point in the enemy team trying to capture their first flag. Once the other squads catch up, the enemy team pretty much becomes target practice.

 

Removing the rule could increase the amount of rage quit/ loss of new players, keeping the rule seems to be prevent further tactical improvement and frustration for the more experienced players.

 

If the whitelisted/community server is still up? could we have it that on this server some of the rules do not apply? such as this one for example? allowing experienced players a chance to play rushing first cap (and the new daring members) but giving new members a chance on the 'public' servers?

 

It's a tough call either way, and there is a lot that needs to be taken into consideration.

i feel it would slow the game down if people realised first caps were important instead of having two second cap stalemates on either side of the map which basically is the same thing.... but yeah maybe on whitelist as experiment first?

My preference is to stop capping of ALL first flags, at least on public servers.

My concern is the ability to effectively enforce the rule. Also, the damage inflicted to a ticket count while trying to get people to move off the point can have a massive effect on the games end result.

So I vote to keep the rule on public servers but remove it from organised matches and the whitelist, even tho that is essentially a public server given it only requires a simple registration.

 

Separate issue, but imo the whitelist should be reserved for experienced/regular players with 100+ hours, not noobs who went to the website and registered.

Separate issue, but imo the whitelist should be reserved for experienced/regular players with 100+ hours, not noobs who went to the website and registered.

 

Steam Collector function of website does not determine hours played - although if somehow a query of the Steam API for that data was possible then we could possible hack it into the collector function.

i know we want to keep new players and all but at the end of the day the ones that play constantly are the one that keep the servers full new players will join whatever servers have players on it and i know a lot of the people who play all the time what the rules changed for some variety

i feel it would slow the game down if people realised first caps were important instead of having two second cap stalemates on either side of the map which basically is the same thing.... but yeah maybe on whitelist as experiment first?

 

I believe slowing down the round starts would be a great thing!!! As it is, we have less than 60 seconds to formulate a plan, coordinate between SL's and then issue orders to squaddies.

And that's if you're lucky and the squads are created and filled quickly. I also see this as a big reason why the same old plan is used over and over again, there isn't time to come up with anything else and people are mostly used to the 2nd flag rush.

 

Steam Collector function of website does not determine hours played - although if somehow a query of the Steam API for that data was possible then we could possible hack it into the collector function.

 

I understand there would be technical restrictions, but I don't see any value in the whitelist severs current configuration. Maybe we could do a nomination and manual entry list for a whitelist version 2.0???

Is there some kind of designation in the name of the server we can use which would clearly identify one of the servers with the open ruling (for testing of gameplay).

 

I disagree but mostly agree with removing it at this point. I would like to think a match where both teams have unit members this would be a good challenge, and along with it comes risk and reward.

 

Judging by hours of gameplay is wrong, there are a few guys around with 20-30hrs who love the serious gameplay and are already getting involved in being great assets to the playerbase we have - and im sure many others we dont know about

Lets be real here. Variety wont change much, if the first flag rush rules is removed. People would be techie, humvee or BTR rushing 1st flag instead of 2nd flag. The tactics would be the exact same as it is now, the games will play out 90% the same as games we currently have. The only difference would be, it makes pushing one side back to main so much easier within the first 10 minutes of a match, making that match 20 - 30 minutes of one side getting slaughtered, if the rush is successful.... And the rush will be successful if team balance is an issue, with experienced players stacking one side(Which is a common occurrence tsk tsk tsk)

 

The idea of game variety and tactics variety relies on public matches actually being coordinated and the match having a somewhat balanced teams with experienced SL's, which is not a super regular thing. Its usually one team having very experienced SL's and players, while the other side has a lot less(Especially since the steam sales). The idea of rushing a first flag and having that thought that the opposing side has a counter plan ready, while having this complex play to take your first flag in return...is really just a thought and won't happen very often at all. People in public matches now, don't really plan for second flag rushes, or think of counters to prevent it happening. The only time this does happen, is if another clan is on the opposing side, to somewhat influence this style of play-- Which from the matches I spectate from the sky, is a 2/10 chance of happening. 7/10 times, its one side dominating, 1/10 times its a very close game. Clan level of competitive play can't be expected from public servers. Back in closed alpha for founders, the rule wasn't needed, as the community was mainly experienced PR or Arma players with an understanding of rushing etc. We don't have that luxury anymore currently.(disregarding closed alpha had no vehicles, rushing was still a very viable tactic, maps were that small lol)

 

People can say, "other servers don't have this rule" Which is true, but you have to remember, the US and EU communities are 10x larger than ours. If one side gets dominated over and over, large amounts of people leave in rage, and another influx of people can take their spot. With us, people rage leave the server and might join one of the other populating bigD servers, or go join the oceanic servers...only difference is, we don't get that surge of players coming to fill the gaps of the rage quitters.

 

I'm usually a man of few words, but I had a hard think about this one. I like the idea of removing the rule for the whitelisted community server, as people would know what they're in for. Would also give people the option of a more serious unforgiving server, and then the option of a more forgiving, not so serious server.

Edited January 3, 20179 yr by Dubs

Thanks for the feedback guys. I have added a 4th option based on comments:

 

Leave it in play and remove it on the Community Whitelist Server.

Feel free to change your vote.

how long is this vote going for?

how long is this vote going for?

 

undecided.. probably about a week realistically

Get rid of it! Maybe Squads will learn to move as one through cap points instead of just ditching 1 or 2 guys there to get ruined by a convoy of humvees haha. this is war! "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!"

Also open for the community server option as well, only if it were seeded more often during the day though.

I've never seen that white-list server filled at all (correct me if I am wrong) so its completely pointless imo to have varying rule sets.

 

Players go where the population is and that's fact. In spite of seeding most of the regulars choose to play with each other even if opposing, even more so if you've ever visited those Oceanic servers...the quality of players just isn't there.

 

I'm usually a man of few words, but I had a hard think about this one. I like the idea of removing the rule for the whitelisted community server, as people would know what they're in for. Would also give people the option of a more serious unforgiving server, and then the option of a more forgiving, not so serious server.

 

Pretty much sums up my exact thoughts. I'm all about having a decent full game with players old and new. Especially with so many new players on the servers at this current point in time.

 

Either way I don't mind what decision is made, as long as everyone follows those rules and plays accordingly. The previous clarification of ' no rushing first flag ' was too vague and everyone had their own interpretation of what that actually meant.

Chicken made a great point - there's no point having the rule removed for the whitelisted server only since nobody plays on that server anyway. Everyone just plays on whatever server has the most players on it, which is almost never the whitelisted server. If you're going to go this route then instead make a Noobs-Only server and make that server the only one with the rule.

 

I really don't see why BigD should be the ONLY server with this rule. BigD has literally the best players in the world - the servers should be known for high-level gameplay. We should be encouraging these sort of tactics, not banning them. Playing on BigD should be like playing on hard mode. It should be tough. It should be a challenge. If you want to play with a bunch of noobs who want to build superfobs all game then go play on oceanic.gg servers.

 

I mean what's the next step after this - banning second-cap rushes? Banning people from digging up FOBs because noobs keep putting them in obvious spots? Banning people from flanking because noobs don't check their flanks? Banning people who get more than 5 kills per match?

 

Think about what type of server you want BigD to be - do you want it to be the server where the best players in the world go to play or do you want it to be a noob-fest where beginners go to fuck around? The server rules need to reflect what sort of server you want BigD to be known for, and having this rule promotes BigD as a place for noobs and low-level tactics. The rule is not congruent at all for a server that wants to be known for having the best games in Squad.

Chicken made a great point - there's no point having the rule removed for the whitelisted server only since nobody plays on that server anyway. Everyone just plays on whatever server has the most players on it, which is almost never the whitelisted server. If you're going to go this route then instead make a Noobs-Only server and make that server the only one with the rule.

 

I really don't see why BigD should be the ONLY server with this rule. BigD has literally the best players in the world - the servers should be known for high-level gameplay. We should be encouraging these sort of tactics, not banning them. Playing on BigD should be like playing on hard mode. It should be tough. It should be a challenge. If you want to play with a bunch of noobs who want to build superfobs all game then go play on oceanic.gg servers.

 

I mean what's the next step after this - banning second-cap rushes? Banning people from digging up FOBs because noobs keep putting them in obvious spots? Banning people from flanking because noobs don't check their flanks? Banning people who get more than 5 kills per match?

 

Think about what type of server you want BigD to be - do you want it to be the server where the best players in the world go to play or do you want it to be a noob-fest where beginners go to **** around? The server rules need to reflect what sort of server you want BigD to be known for, and having this rule promotes BigD as a place for noobs and low-level tactics. The rule is not congruent at all for a server that wants to be known for having the best games in Squad.

 

I worry about you...

 

The public servers need to cater for new players. Turning them away to play with the great unwashed that is oceanic.gg is a terrible idea for so many reasons.

 

1. They create growth for the community, and therefore are our bread and butter. Without growth there are no servers.
   
2. You will completely stunt the Australian playerbase because without new players feeling welcome on quality well administrated servers with quality players they will turn toxic and adopt bad playstyles.
   
3. Players become skilled and knowledgeable through time and exposure to high level play in a setting that they can at least learn and enjoy in. Once someone isn't having fun and the environment is to difficult learning stops (teaching 101).
   

So with all that said, why would we want to be in known as only providing high level play where inexperienced players will just rage quit on. That is the complete opposite of what the Squad community represents.

 

Having said that, I'm an experienced player, I want tight and fast games where everyone on the server knows there shit and we can breed a server environment that fosters competite play and we as a community can be at the forefront of shaping what competitive Squad is all about.

 

Thank fuck we have a community whitelisted server where there is no handholding and you are expected to play hard or gtfo.. you lot just need to populate it.

 

Having custom rules on the whitelist server is infact a fantastic idea because then we can shape it to be the server you want, and it actually creates the motivation needed to seed it.

 

But, without beginner friendly servers there will be no community, and by extension, no full pop whitelist server

Chicken made a great point - there's no point having the rule removed for the whitelisted server only since nobody plays on that server anyway. Everyone just plays on whatever server has the most players on it, which is almost never the whitelisted server. If you're going to go this route then instead make a Noobs-Only server and make that server the only one with the rule.

Wouldn't removing the rules on the whitelist server be the same affect as the above though? Only thing is, people who want more high level play would have to seed it. The lesser experienced players have the public server to learn and gain experience from and when they feel ready to touch on a more unforgiving server, they join on in the whitelisted server.

 

I really don't see why BigD should be the ONLY server with this rule. BigD has literally the best players in the world - the servers should be known for high-level gameplay. We should be encouraging these sort of tactics, not banning them. Playing on BigD should be like playing on hard mode. It should be tough. It should be a challenge. If you want to play with a bunch of noobs who want to build superfobs all game then go play on oceanic.gg servers.

I don't see what other servers not having the rule has to do with anything either, as their gameplay, especially on US servers is a lot more cluster fucky and chaotic than our servers. As well as, if 15 people rage quit a US or EU server, there's 10 other servers to join, and 100+ other players to fill the gaps of rage quitters. With us, we get one side being dominated, 10 people rage quit, then another 5 rage quit, then we have this 12 v 27 type scenario. Then we get the whole "I don't want to switch teams" scenario, then the server dies out. This is quite common, especially Late night(10pm - 2am NZDT). We don't have the numbers to fill in the gaps of ragers. And if no other BigD servers are populated, they go and join Oceanic.

 

It's not good for community growth.If there's a large amount of players wanting this "higher level" play, then it won't be hard to seed the whitelist server if the rule is removed for that server only, no?

 

Think about what type of server you want BigD to be - do you want it to be the server where the best players in the world go to play or do you want it to be a noob-fest where beginners go to **** around? The server rules need to reflect what sort of server you want BigD to be known for, and having this rule promotes BigD as a place for noobs and low-level tactics. The rule is not congruent at all for a server that wants to be known for having the best games in Squad.

It really sounds like you're expecting E-Sports MLG style of play. The reality is; Public servers will never be able to provide that type of gameplay, unless the community as a whole is 99% experienced players -- which it is not.

Just remember you were all new to the game once and your joining of the community is what strengthened it in the first place. Whatever happens we cannot intentionally push back new players, just something to keep in mind.

I'm sure the rule was put in for a reason in the first place. Remove it and assess how it has affected game-play, and if the same issue persists reintroduce it.

Wouldn't removing the rules on the whitelist server be the same affect as the above though? Only thing is, people who want more high level play would have to seed it. The lesser experienced players have the public server to learn and gain experience from and when they feel ready to touch on a more unforgiving server, they join on in the whitelisted server.

 

Yeah that's the point Flanders and I are trying to make. As you highlighted the AU population for squad is tiny and therefore we are unable to seed that white-list server effectively (I know I've tried a handful of times, the best we got was around 30 or so players iirc). Simply not enough clans actively promoting their players onto that white list server and a lack of players wanting to pursue a higher level of play.

 

I'd like to further add that I do not believe it is a good idea to separate veterans and noobs. If anything it is counter productive to fighting the attrition rate on players in Squad. As a personal experience I came into this game with no FPS / Milsim background whatsoever. Fortunately for me my first games were led by PANDA_V1RUS and co and that leads me to here today. The veterans and clans are in the best position to inspire players to play on BigD by showing them the way the game 'should' be played.

 

Nobody is falling in love with this game when led by foolish squad leaders...cough...we know who I am talking about.