We all know and love(*COUGH*HATE*COUGH*) the Spec Ops class. After all , it's such a glamourous and cool class, when you're spec ops , you're the "it" kid on the PR block aren't you? Wrong. It's attractive to noob because they think they look cool in their spec ops getup , it has the attractive new Sig Sauer pistol , The stylish camo makeup , the SLAMs so you can leave the area in style , but most of all , the noobs love it for one reason: the M4A1/L119A1 carbines. in PR it translates to : red dot automatic firepower. Oh and to top it off the Spec Ops have nice arses.

 

This is makes for a formidable class yeah? Well sort of. But in the PR sense of teamwork , they don't really have a place. Yeah they are good for room clearing and urban combat to a degree, but you can achieve the same with a rifle and a frag grenade (which the spec ops doesnt have) or flashbang from an officer (yet again , they lack this tool). They no longer have the merit they did when it comes to sabotage , because the engineer can do the same job to better effect , not to mention survive in direct combat longer and engage accurately further too. As for stealth? The spec ops doesn't really have much stealth benefits that the other classes don't , aesthetically-wise his profile is only slightly (very slight) smaller then most other classes. Spec Ops used to benefit the squad by being a foward recon , alas this benefit is also gone due to the fact that almost all classes have binocs.

 

I think it's time for the devs to either Replace the Spec Ops or give them a purpose.

 

Personally a starter would be giving them back the parachutes AND flashbangs (or White phosphorus(sp?) grenades ), however i also thought up some classes that may be more beneficial such as

 

Paratroop/Paramedic : basically either a Rifleman kit or Medic kit with flashbangs instead of smoke and parachutes for making quick and safe drops from aircraft.

 

CQB specialist class: Preferably a shotgun or SMG , body armour , flashbangs , grappling hook. Basically a close quarters class with the equipment to get jobs like urban assaulting and room clearing done.

 

Whatchoo fools think?

I like the idea of a paratrooper, prehaps give him limited equipment and a carbine? As for CQB specalist... well, you don't really get that IRL, so I cant see it being a posibility.

 

Prehaps if the SpecOps just had some nades and a working laser designator (that all missiles, etc would lock on to) plus a 1.5-2x on his sight, all would be well. This game really needs some observers for all the weaponry.

Well, I reckon get rid of it all together or just rename it to "commando"

 

But next patch spec ops are getting limited, so they'll probably get a new toy or something....

Give them a god damn silencer, and they'll be just as useful as they used to be, if not more so.

Give them a god damn silencer, and they'll be just as useful as they used to be, if not more so.

 

DAMN!!! That's a great idea Photo :bulb:

I agree something has to be done - they're useless as it stands.

 

Spec Ops troops (SASR etc) tend to be involved in either forward recon (incl spotting for air strikes etc) or sabotage operations when used in conjunction with main force units. To reflect this I think upgrading the SLAM to be more powerful (maybe only carrying 2 instead of 3 though), as well as adding a silencer and one of the SL type binos (i forget what they're called). All of these things would make for a limited kit that would be useful, but not so attractive to n00bs to become annoying, especially if the silenced weapons were nerfed realistically enough to make their use in general combat undesirable.

Give them a god damn silencer, and they'll be just as useful as they used to be, if not more so.

 

Agreed , for players like me and you , back in 0.5 the spec ops actually was fun and useful , but 0.6 has failed to deliver in that aspect. Giving us a silencer would give it that edge over using engineers.

biggest reason imo that spec ops are unused is due to rifleman scopes come 0.6, their major trait was their primary weapon having a better zoom than the other main classes

Hang on, has anyone considered that they dont have a zoom on the scope for a reason? Let me explain; Their role is sneaking around and blowing stuff up, not front-line combat. For what they're designed for, I think they are perfectly equipped. Front line soldiers will need the zoom to combat the enemy but in bases (where all the enemies assets and your targets are) the furthest your target will be is 100m which is easily shootable with the current scope. Point is, you shouldn't have to be firing your weapon if you're using the kit properly. Sneak in, try not to shoot and if you're found, let them have a face-full of lead. Carbines are primarily self-defence weapons anyway. The idea is to unleash a big ****-off long burst from the gun and spray the area, either killing or suppressing your target. The low-recoil allows this easily. Sure, the kit isn't used much but when if I ever decide I'm going hunting for assets, I know I'll be taking Spec ops.

 

As for engineer doing a better job. Maybe, but they dont have the zoom either, the only advantage they have is the land mine. On non-armour maps, I would hardly call this an advantage. Also, the SLAMs allow you to place one and forget about it whereas with the engineer, you have to detonate it yourself which may not be possible if you're shot

 

Apart from that, when playing US you have burst, which is normally a good thing for fire control but chances are you're going to be in a mad-dash hit and run attack and burst fire doesn't really lend itself to that. Spec ops is quite possibly the only class that can pull off run and gun tactics because it has low recoil.

 

And finally, the pistol. The Spec ops kit is the only kit with a pistol apart from officer and Hvy AT. You'd be surprised how effective it is at point blank range, I know I've whipped it out on more than one occasion as officer if the heat is really hot.

 

Well, thats my opinion on the subject. The Spec ops is perfectly suited to its intended role but thats not to say it couldn't be better, just that in my opinion, its better than engineer. Keep in mind that 0.7 will see Spec ops as a limited kit so we'll probably get some goodies on it, be it a silencer or parachute I dont know .

Give them a god damn silencer, and they'll be just as useful as they used to be, if not more so.

 

I've said it before and I say it again.

 

Give the the Spec-ops an MP5SD or similar silenced sub-machine gun that has less damage and range than a normal rifle but is silent, Spec-ops should have a parachute to help them get behind enemy lines easier, and give the Spec-ops SLAMs that CAN do heavy damage to assets instead of the firecrackers they have now. Also make them limited so not every second guy in the game is Spec-ops, 4 per team would be good, like the Support kit.

 

Finally rename them to Commandos because that is what they are. (look up the definition/origin of Commando if you don't understand)

Another thing would be to drastically increase the amount they can sprint for. Like with the regular front-line soldiers with body armour, 2 bars, and the commandos with 3 bars.

and give the Spec-ops SLAMs that CAN do heavy damage to assets instead of the firecrackers they have now

In reality, SLAMS do bugger all to MBT's. They are good at doing damage to targets that aren't as heavily armoured, like APC's though. Which is pretty much how it goes in PR.

In reality, SLAMS do bugger all to MBT's. They are good at doing damage to targets that aren't as heavily armoured, like APC's though. Which is pretty much how it goes in PR.

 

In RL is there actually little greeen boxes with explosives inside with a timer and sticky stuff on the back (ie SLAMS) ???

 

Thought they'd just use c4 ???

 

EDIT: I can't find anything about SLAMS on military sites. (mind you my googling skills suck)

Edited September 2, 200717 yr by cm.

SLAMS are an EFP.

They don't actually stick to anything like they do in PR. But the BF2 engine is crap and they had to make it like that.

and give the Spec-ops SLAMs that CAN do heavy damage to assets instead of the firecrackers they have now.

 

What I mean is the SLAMs are ok, but two should be able to take out an APC easily so I still think they are too weak. So I am saying change it so 1 SLAM does 2/3 damage to an APC or similar. And in real life Commandos get C4 for destroying bigger, better armored assets too. So they should probably get 1 C4 as well.

 

SLAMs and C4 don't stick to things in real life... unless you put double sided tape on them.

Edited September 2, 200717 yr by mrchickenfool

Eh, slams would do damage to an APC, but they'd be hard pressed to knock one out in reality....

SLAMS are an EFP.

They don't actually stick to anything like they do in PR. But the BF2 engine is crap and they had to make it like that.

 

Thanks Lucid, If I can learn one thing everyday I'll be a freakin genius by the time I die. :suicide:

Edited September 2, 200717 yr by cm.

Eh, slams would do damage to an APC, but they'd be hard pressed to knock one out in reality....

 

Well it would not explode like in PR and become a big black smoking wreak. But 2 SLAMs would put some big freakin' holes in it and if placed properly would take out the engine/control systems/fuel enough to make it completely useless. Unless you need a big piece of cover.

Depends on what APC it hits. It'd have holes in it for sure, But it'd still be operational enough to get the hell out of there in most cases.

Most APCs only have 10 to 20 millimeters of armor and it is usually only made of steel. A SLAM can penetrate 20mm RHA at close range, 40mm+ at optimum range. Never seen a SLAM blast an APC in real life so I don't know how much damage it would really do to what parts. But since SLAMs were designed to destroy APCs (among other things) I would think that they could.

 

Regardless even if it is not 100% realistic I think it would be good for the spec-ops/commando to have a better anti-armor sabotage capability either as a SLAM or other explosive device.

 

EDIT: Couldn't find a vid of an APC getting SLAM'ed, there was a slim chance someone might have taped a weapons test or something and posted it on the net. But I did find this

It seemed kinda relevant... I think... maybe...

Edited September 2, 200717 yr by mrchickenfool

A well places SLAM should be able to take the tracks off a tank. Stupid BF2 engine.

Laser marker + silenced weapons + SLAMs that pack a slightly bigger punch would make them a much better class.

Chicken , the main advantage of engineers over spec ops that i was citing was the body armor , more accurate & better range (and maybe slightly powerful depending on the coding , but this negated by the M4's full auto fire) of the M16 , and the fact that C4 in PR blows **** up far better than SLAMs do.

 

Getting back to the issue at hand , you know what mod did alot of **** like Spec Ops right? POE 2 , Point Of Existence 2. That's right. That mod was puckin awesome. Come to think of it , should we all download it again and maybe have a bash on it one night , playing the way we do in PR?

 

Anyway back on topic , in POE the Spec Ops had a number of tools to make it an effective asset. They had a silenced carbine , a SOFLAM/binoc that was capable of designating targets , either for the artillery or to create an attack target for the jets. This coupled with a the usual tools of the trade made them a rather useful unit to have.

Chicken , the main advantage of engineers over spec ops that i was citing was the body armor , more accurate & better range (and maybe slightly powerful depending on the coding , but this negated by the M4's full auto fire) of the M16 , and the fact that C4 in PR blows **** up far better than SLAMs do.

 

Errrrrrr.....how?? Body armour, I'll grant you that but more accurate and better range? The engineer doesn't have a scope in 0.6 and on the US, it has one big mutha of an iron sight. The spec ops has an aimdot sight which is by far the best scope in the game, even better than marksmen and sniper kits in my opinion(no lines screwing up your vision). Also it has full auto, which I've already covered.

 

Also, on the topic of C4, would you rather seeing spec ops troops on the front line hunting tanks?? In real life they may have C4 and may take out tanks but I'd wager thats only when they have the time to properly place thier rather small C4 charges on tanks to disable them (You know, like getting into the engine and letting the thing go off inside it where as an engineer just plonks one on the side). The BF2 engine doesn't allow for this distinction so they're not as strong as the C4 of the engineer. Instead they get SLAMs, which are more than capable of destroying assets. Personally I like the balance as it lends itself to commander asset hunting rather than vehicle hunting, which isn't what they're meant to do.

 

In a broader sense, I think part of the reason you see less spec ops is that there isn't as many things to blow up. 90% of maps have the UAV box thingy-ma-bob and that does nothing so why blow it up? If the enemy has a commander going beserk, you may get to blow some of his stuff but really, the choice of targets has been severly limited since 0.5

 

So in short;

M4 is better than M16 on engineer

SLAMs kill commander assets, C4 kills tanks

Less targets = less spec ops

 

All of the above is my personal opinion, we can agree to disagree if you like

Errrrrrr.....how?? Body armour, I'll grant you that but more accurate and better range? The engineer doesn't have a scope in 0.6 and on the US, it has one big mutha of an iron sight. The spec ops has an aimdot sight which is by far the best scope in the game, even better than marksmen and sniper kits in my opinion(no lines screwing up your vision). Also it has full auto, which I've already covered.

 

Also, on the topic of C4, would you rather seeing spec ops troops on the front line hunting tanks?? In real life they may have C4 and may take out tanks but I'd wager thats only when they have the time to properly place thier rather small C4 charges on tanks to disable them (You know, like getting into the engine and letting the thing go off inside it where as an engineer just plonks one on the side). The BF2 engine doesn't allow for this distinction so they're not as strong as the C4 of the engineer. Instead they get SLAMs, which are more than capable of destroying assets. Personally I like the balance as it lends itself to commander asset hunting rather than vehicle hunting, which isn't what they're meant to do.

 

In a broader sense, I think part of the reason you see less spec ops is that there isn't as many things to blow up. 90% of maps have the UAV box thingy-ma-bob and that does nothing so why blow it up? If the enemy has a commander going beserk, you may get to blow some of his stuff but really, the choice of targets has been severly limited since 0.5

 

So in short;

M4 is better than M16 on engineer

SLAMs kill commander assets, C4 kills tanks

Less targets = less spec ops

 

All of the above is my personal opinion, we can agree to disagree if you like

 

I'd just like to point out that my reasoning for the M16 being better then the M4 is , if in the case that you suddenly while on your sabotaging adventures need to engage in combat , the M16 is coded to be more accurate , better range and slightly more powerful than the M4. The full auto on the M4 makes up for the slight (very slight) power difference , but If i needed a multi-tasker , the engineer would be better suited IMO. The M4's red dot does make for an easy shot , but then again the M16 ironsights are probably some of easiest to snap shot in the game.

 

However this all being said , the most common form of firefights encountered during our saboteer adventures are close combat , so the full auto outweighs accuracy and range. Just trying to say the Engineer could possibly multi-task better then the Spec Ops , going from front line combat , to saboteering in a sinch. Also bringing up an old point , but the mines do really help on some maps if you set them under the tank treads at an enemy's base.

 

IMO I'm just wanting to express that the Spec Ops NEEDS something else to give it it's flair back instead of just being a cool looking class. Parachute would solve that problem easily , or a silenced rifle. Because at the moment , as I and other have stated before , the Engineer has been able to do the same job to similar or better effect.

 

Seriously , parachutes or silenced carbines won't have that dire an effect on gameplay.

 

Oh and off-topic but i hear rumours that the US pilot kit is soon to get a PDW in place of the M9 , like a MP7 or something.